Happiness: Pivot, Ego, and Reality, Pt 4 of 5

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Whitney: Dang it! Okay, take two. That's good.

Amy: I'm Amy.

Whitney: And I'm Whitney, and this is midlife, but you're anything but mid. Okay. Hello Amy!

Amy: Hello! Hello!

Whitney: Did you hear this is this is a couple of weeks now that this came out, but there is a new anti-aging pill or drug, first ever reverse aging drug was injected into a human for trial?

Amy: Was it Bryan Johnson?

Whitney: It was not! It was through Biosciences, I think.

Amy: No!

Whitney: Which is where I used...

Amy: Who's this human that got to do that?

Whitney: I don't know. It doesn't give the name of the human.

Amy: It doesn't?

Whitney: But it's a very big deal because it promises to reverse aging and it's an injection and it's a pivotal moment in longevity science.

Amy: Reverse aging how?

Whitney: It trains aging cells to act young again.

Amy: I like that.

Whitney: It can actually improve how people age in the real world. So, that's pretty crazy that we're getting to this point. Where pretty soon, just like I think I talked about this, maybe I didn't, there's also a pill being developed. Did I tell you about this, that helps with your joints all over your body?

Amy: That is so cool. Uh-uh. No.

Whitney: So, that's another thing that's happening and in the works. It's still trying to get FDA approval. But it's, I guess, a pill that you take and it literally helps every joint in your body. So, people that have you know, knee issues or neck issues, it it helps repair all of that.

Amy: Oh, my god! That's huge!

Whitney: So, I mean, I feel like the cane industry is going to be out of business, yeah.

Amy: Is that going to put like the... Joint replacement... Yeah, like the hip replacement business is going to I don't know, they may try to suppress that.

Whitney: They might. But I It made me think about what is what are people going to be looking like 20 years from now? Like, are we not going to know what a gray hair is? Are we not going to... Utopia. Heaven.

Amy: That would be great!

Whitney: You know what I mean? Like, no you're never going to hear, "Oh, my back!" again.

Amy: Yeah. I don't know about that.

Whitney: Well, I don't know. Right now, my sister is staying with me, she's 47, and she can barely Like, her back is bothering her so much, she's like it's like every time she moves, she's like, "Uh." And the sad thing is, she's got 7-year-old twins, so she's still like picking people up and dealing with that.

Amy: No! My daughter said that when we were in Paris. She goes, "Every time you move or get up, you go like uh, uh, you make a noise." She was like, "It's so annoying!" And I was like, "I'm going to Just you wait! When you are 53 years old, we're going to have a conversation, and you know what's going to happen? You're going to apologize to me."

Whitney: That's hilarious! My mom at 79 is saying that to us on the daily, like, "Oh, I wish I was going to be around when you're my age." But apparently, we're not going to be having those issues.

Amy: Right. She may still be around.

Whitney: My daughter My daughter... My sister's kids, my nieces, are staying on cots in my room. And I will try to get up in the morning This is my mid moment.

Amy: Oh, that sounds fun!

Whitney: I try to get up in the morning quietly because if they think you're up, even if they're tired, they jump up and come running. Like there's no alone time.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. No.

Whitney: So, I'm trying to quietly like sneak out of the room, and every movement is creaking. My My knees are creaking and popping, my feet, and I was like, "This is worse than like a creaky floorboard. It's my own body. I can't even sidestep it."

Amy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally.

Whitney: So, I mean, maybe those aren't going to be a thing in 20 years.

Amy: I hope. I hope. I hope. Let's use technology for something good.

Whitney: It's also...

Amy: Let's fix in our body. Crazy idea. Call me crazy.

Whitney: Well, and the conversation I was having with chat about it was also saying, "You know, it's we're going towards the biostimulators instead of, you know, Botox and stuff like that and injecting fillers. You're going towards that idea of making your body produce the things that it needs." So, it's all very exciting.

Amy: Totally. Well, I forgot, you know, I got back from Paris and I brought you something. Totally forgot.

Whitney: Oh, yay!

Amy: Here it is. I brought you some new pajamas that are so cute. They're pink and orange-striped

Whitney: Oh, my god! They're so cute! I'm assuming they look like this?

Amy: with tigers. Yeah.

Whitney: I love it! Thank you!

Amy: Yay! I got them at a street market in Paris.

Whitney: That is so fun! And I will wear them on my French trip.

Amy: Yeah. Cool!

Whitney: But I'll also wear them on the show.

Amy: Okay, yes, you have to wear them on the show. All right, good.

Whitney: All right. Hey, thank you! That's super fun. All right, today, we are getting back into my limited series, the Max Life protocol.

Amy: Oh boy.

Whitney: Real science behind a real life!

Amy: We've already done our portfolio. We've done What was the first one? The first one was... something.

Whitney: We

Amy: Yeah. Cool. And then we did something about community.

Whitney: We did. We talked about the happiness protocol, making sure that you you know, have a diversified portfolio. We talked about quality control in our relationships, you want to have real friends not deal friends.

Amy: Yes. Right.

Whitney: This is part four where we are moving into our own minds

Amy: Part four. Ooh, yes!

Whitney: to look at how we process reality. If you want to keep your life from stalling out and hitting a mid plateau, you have to look at how you handle being wrong. Because that is something that I think as we get older and I see it in my mom more than I see it in myself,

Amy: It's real. It's a real problem. Yes, for older people.

Whitney: you don't want to look stupid or feel like you're wrong, you know, and it it all is around your own ego and your perception of what's happening. So,

Amy: Yeah. And there's like the sliver of I'm getting old and it could be that I'm not processing it quite right. Like I felt that some traveling with my 17-year-old. And I was like, "Uh man, I'm not quite as sharp." Like I felt like I wasn't as sharp and I was like, "That was really fucking annoying to me." But then she made some mistakes and I was like, "Okay, cool. I'm..."

Whitney: Yes. You're like, "All right, we're even. We're just making mistakes up."

Amy: I was like, "All right."

Whitney: No, I think it is it is it gets harder as you get older to admit that you're wrong because you feel like it's perceived as, "Oh, you're just old." You know, you're just, "Ugh, God. Obviously, you don't know cuz you're old." Whereas anyone might not have known. And really, the mature thing, the older wiser thing to do is just fucking admit it. Admit it and then learn and do or if you want to change your mind or you made a mistake, it I see it in my mom a lot and it's very frustrating cuz I'm like, "Just fucking own it! Just own it!"

Amy: And then learn. Like what happens?

Whitney: I can't think of anything right now per se.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think even like it presents politically a lot of times for people. You know, and they get very stuck in in the way that they've conceived this this narrative that they built, and then they won't grow, or learn, or evolve past that and it's like, you know, come on.

Whitney: Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah, and they won't Yes. Yes. So, today is about the pivot protocol. And it's going to rely, cuz you know Pivot! Pivot! So, basically, all of the things that we've been talking about are using the work of Arthur Brooks, who's a Harvard professor, he specializes in how to build a life of meaning and purpose and that's really where you get your happiness from. So, we'll be breaking it down.

Amy: Pivot! Mm-hmm. I looked into him cuz I I made sure to put that link in the show notes just to his website and stuff. So, it was pretty interesting like perusing his website.

Whitney: Yeah, I think he's really interesting. I think he also has a great demeanor, but he has the science behind it. It's not just like, you know, a life coach.

Amy: Love that.

Whitney: You know, like he's a he has truly researched and looked at the science behind all of it.

Amy: Right. Right. I don't know why I hadn't heard of him before.

Whitney: I don't know. I'm a huge Oprah fan and she likes Arthur Brooks.

Amy: Oh! Okay, okay.

Whitney: So, maybe that's why. I was I was into him before he got super big.

Amy: Uh-huh. Oh, I see.

Whitney: Because Oprah Early adopter. I was early adopter. All right, so the core concepts, we're going to talk about ego first, cuz that's really The ego is something I'm always trying to manage. All right, loud ego versus quiet ego, all right? So, so let me let me back up. There're two core concepts that we're going to discuss. The epistemic humility

Amy: Oh, ego. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

Whitney: and the quiet ego. Those are the two things that we're going to Epistemic humility and quiet ego. So, let's talk about ego.

Amy: That's so interesting. Okay.

Whitney: The loud ego, you obviously can figure out what that means. It's a defensive state, right? Constant need to protect yourself-importance, to make your make sure that everyone knows your track record and your opinions. And that your opinions are the most important at all costs. We all know somebody like that. I have to say I've been that person.

Amy: Oh, lord. Somebodies.

Whitney: I've also been that person.

Amy: Well...

Whitney: No, I mean, I have. Maybe not in so much in later in life cuz I've done a lot of work on myself, but it comes up, especially with my family. I can get right back into that very easily. In this state, changing your mind feels like humiliation

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: or you're defeated. And admitting the mistake is like a threat to who you are. If you If you admit to the mistake, then it tears down everything that you've been trying to show to the world. It's all messed up. It's all mind games

Amy: It is.

Whitney: that you're playing with yourself!

Amy: That you're doing to yourself. Yeah.

Whitney: That's what's so hilarious! Like No one else is doing this. You are the one doing it to yourself.

Amy: No one cares that much. No.

Whitney: Guys, the mid trap is the person whose career, fitness, relationships stall out because they're too proud to admit that their current strategy isn't working anymore. And it kind of goes back to the first curve, second curve that we talked about in episode one, part one.

Amy: Right. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: It's time to reevaluate and change. And that's part of maturity, right? If you keep What do they say? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same result?

Amy: Yeah. Expecting different results.

Whitney: Expecting different result, right. Insanity was also midlife.

Amy: But no, that's exactly right. Yeah, and so it's As you age, you've got to evolve your identity.

Whitney: Yeah. You've got to pivot. You've got to pivot. So, you want the quiet ego, the curious state.

Amy: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: You don't always have to be right. And even if you are right, why not be curious about the other person's point of view?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: You know, if you can just sit in Ryan always says something, now I can't remember. It's something like, "Better to be curious..." I think it's really like, "Better to be curious than right," or something like that.

Amy: It's true. I mean, if you can just pivot to curiosity, that's such a good go-to, you know, to get out of your own ego and everything. Cuz then it's unintimidating. It's like, "Oh, I'm just curious," you know?

Whitney: Yeah, and you're not coming at it as, "I already know everything. I know what's best." If you can sit in that, "Well, what do you think? Well, why do you think that?", you know, in a way that's not, "Well, what do you think?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: Well, why do you think that?" You know, you got to be very careful. But it's the curious state.

Amy: Yeah. Okay.

Whitney: A psychological state where you lower the volume on your own self-importance and look outwardly with curiosity rather than inwardly with defensiveness.

Amy: Mm-hmm. Defensiveness is so unattractive.

Whitney: It really is, and it's exhausting. I feel like as I get older, you know, we've talked about this, the people that take your energy, you try to, you know, back away from. A lot of those people, the energy that you're the the reason it's so exhausting to be around them is because they're always so defensive. You're having to calm them down, you're having to back backtrack and rephrase and it's just like,

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: "I don't want to hurt your feelings," or, "you know, you're taking this the wrong way." It's All of that. Eggshells.

Amy: Yeah. Eggshells. All of that, yeah.

Whitney: So, when your ego's quiet, you don't care about looking right, you care about getting it right.

Amy: I love that.

Whitney: Isn't that a good one?

Amy: Yeah!

Whitney: You don't care about being right, you care about getting it right. So, discovering when you're wrong about something isn't a loss, it's an upgrade.

Amy: Love it. Love it.

Whitney: All right? So, it just means you're gathering better data to navigate your life more efficiently. And and I know on on like an objective level when like, we want to keep learning. You You You appreciate the people that step back and go, "Hey,

Amy: Yes. Yes.

Whitney: you know what? I'm sorry. Hold on. I don't know what I was talking about. Let me Let me get more information," or, "Why don't you share more information?" I appreciate it in others. It's not as easy

Amy: Right. It's not.

Whitney: to do it yourself because you feel like you're losing face.

Amy: Yeah, and I think there's also Part of it is a habit, and like I've noticed that I'll have little spaces like that where I'll want to look like I've got the situation managed, or something like that. And I'll be like, "I can just tell the truth here that I don't know." And And like, I'll notice that and I'm like, "Why would I even have defaulted to that anyway?" But for some reason, we do out of maybe habit.

Whitney: Yeah. Self-perva- Preservation.

Amy: Self-preservation, maybe. Something like that.

Whitney: I think about it with my kids, right? I had one kid in particular, and they're still like this, but even as a little kid, they will argue to the death, even when they're backed into a corner and it is so obvious that they are wrong. And And And by the way, this is happening with someone who loves them and it just just own up, man!

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: You know? But they will fight you to the death rather than say, "I'm wrong." And that is exhausting. Not just for me, but for them. It has to be freaking exhausting. Talk about imposter syndrome

Amy: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes.

Whitney: when you're having to continue to act defend something that you no longer believe in, but you just won't agree that it's wrong because you don't want to save You're just trying to save face.

Amy: I know. I think you just described a lot of people. Yeah.

Whitney: It's It's really And this is the thing, most people are not even aware that they're doing it. And that's the first step with anything, it's just becoming aware of, "Oh, wait. Let me just stop for a second and check back in with myself. I actually don't believe this anymore." Politically, like you said, I think that's happening a lot

Amy: Yeah. Yeah!

Whitney: nowadays and people have so, you know, tied themselves to one belief that they just don't feel like they can let go of it. And it's all it's doing is creating more

Amy: It's crazy.

Whitney: divide.

Amy: It really is, and it just makes you miserable. It probably It probably raises your cortisol. It you know, it has like cellular implications. I guess I'm thinking about hormones, too, since I've been covering those, you know, like it's like going to make you unhealthy.

Whitney: Oh, my gosh! Yeah. Well, when you're in a well, a fight or flight situation, which is what this is, you're always in a fight.

Amy: Yeah. Your nervous system is all jacked.

Whitney: Yeah, you're you're you're never in what were we talking about in the last episode? Calm

Amy: Oh, yeah.

Whitney: calm alertness.

Amy: Calm alertness! Yes!

Whitney: Even when you have been alerted that, "Oh, wait. Maybe this isn't going well," there's no calmness in it cuz you have a freaking chip on your shoulder.

Amy: Uh-huh. Boy, chip on I feel like I can spot it in people so fast these days, too, you know, when they've got a chip on their shoulder. It's like, "Oh."

Whitney: It's It's actually heartbreaking because you know And again, it's easy to do when it's not you, when you're seeing it in somebody else, but you're like, "If I could just like push that off, let me push that off your shoulder, and your life is going to be so much better."

Amy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Whitney: But, nope.

Amy: No.

Whitney: I can't even get close enough. They just swat my hand away. So, yeah. So, the first one is the quiet ego doing the curious state, which

Amy: No. Right. Mm.

Whitney: all you have to do is take a minute and go, "Wait, where where's my ego right now? Am I being loud or am I being quiet?"

Amy: Mm. Yeah, that's good. Ego check.

Whitney: Anyway. Ego check. All right. And then the second core is the epistemic humility, which is basically just a highbrow way of saying intellectual modesty. You need to understand

Amy: What does the word epistemic mean?

Whitney: I don't know. It means Epi-, epi-, epidermis, ex- like external.

Amy: External humility? External It's basically saying system

Whitney: It's basically saying that you you have a confidence you you have a knowing that you don't know everything

Amy: Mhm. Okay, cool.

Whitney: is what it's basic. You have to have this deep, confident acceptance

Amy: I think it means it's kind of coming from the outside. You know, like you are humbled by the fact that

Whitney: that your knowledge is limited. Let me just look it up right now.

Amy: it is coming from the outside and I'm I'm just Yeah, look it up.

Whitney: I mean, I've got a computer right here. Why don't I just... Why don't I just see what it means. It's an adjective relating to knowledge, understanding, or how we acquire and validate what we know.

Amy: I have, too. I guess I could look it up. Okay.

Whitney: So, it's an adjective relating to the knowledge that we don't know everything, basically. Epistemic humility is, "I know that I don't know everything."

Amy: Mm-hmm. "I am humbled by the fact that I do not know everything."

Whitney: Right, exactly. And if you go in But here's Okay, so I have All right, so let me finish this and then I'm going to tell you what I have a little bit of an issue with.

Amy: Okay. Okay.

Whitney: I'm I'm going to tell you in a minute. All right.

Amy: All right. I love it.

Whitney: So, epistemic epistemic humility. As we age, you have to understand, and I think we've talked about this, you're not Like you just talked about in the last episode, you're Or maybe it was this one.

Amy: I don't know. What?

Whitney: Where you're not as fast. You're not It was in this one, you were just talking about.

Amy: Oh yeah, the sharpness. Yes.

Whitney: Yes, you're not as sharp. Your speed naturally slows down, but your wisdom increases.

Amy: That's right. And we talked about that with second curve.

Whitney: We did. We talked about that on the first and second curve. Here's the catch: it doesn't matter how much you know if you never understand that you don't know everything. Like part of what you know is that you don't know everything. It gives you a moment of like, "Okay, let me let this person in to tell me what they think." It allows you to listen and adapt.

Amy: I just watched this chart I watched a reel and this woman was talking about She's studying nutrition, but she used to be paleo. And she was talking about this thing where people just preach paleo like, "This is it." She said, "I felt that way. I thought I knew everything about nutrition." And she was talking about, particularly, the cycle of knowledge, and that like you learn a little and you're way up here with your ego and everything and thinking, just like you said, thinking that you you've got it down. And then suddenly, you learn more and you realize you don't know anything and you're way Like you've learned more, but your

Whitney: Yes. You now know less.

Amy: you know less. Yes, and then

Whitney: Yeah. That's the awareness of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: And then it gradually rises back up the more you know, you start to feel more confident and more secure in that. Like So, that was really interesting, just she put it in the perspective of nutrition, but yeah, it it was it's just

Whitney: No, I think I I think about that that story of the elephant and these blind you know, I don't know how many blind men are are holding a different part of element elephant and then they're describing what an elephant is and they're all different.

Amy: Oh, the way they sense it. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: You have blinders on. And as long as you understand, "I have blinders on and I know this because of my experiences and the research that I've done, but if I take these blinders off, there's a whole other room..."

Amy: Yeah, Michael Singer talks about that. Yes.

Whitney: He talks about having a flashlight. Yes! I was just remembering that! Yes.

Amy: A flashlight in a warehouse and like you've only got it shined on this one thing when there's the whole other Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah, I love that. I love Michael Singer, and I love that analogy, and I used it a lot in my grief because you can naturally just assume, "This is where I'm going to sit, this is how it's going to feel,

Amy: Me, too. Uh-huh.

Whitney: you know, and and there's no meaning in it whatsoever." But as you learn and open up and the flashlight widens and you keep moving through it, you see the different doors and windows and the lessons that you're being learned. It's really a great way to think about life when you're in a moment of trauma, or tragedy, or stress.

Amy: Yeah. It really is.

Whitney: I'm just flashing My flashlight can only go so far, but there's so much more and I just have to have faith to keep walking.

Amy: You really do. Yes.

Whitney: Yeah, I love that. I love him. All right, so the data shows if you don't practice epistemic humility, you block your own wisdom from developing and and you get trapped in midlife on a plateau.

Amy: Me, too. Me, too. Yeah.

Whitney: And so, the data shows that people who practice a quiet ego experience significantly lower levels of stress and anxiety. Why do you think that is?

Amy: Yeah, because you're not all like wrapped up, and bound up, and like, "This is the way it is." Yes!

Whitney: being right. Yes, it's exhausting to have to constantly defend and always be right. So, you learn to let it go.

Amy: Mm-hmm. I think it hardens you.

Whitney: Let it go, let it go. This When I was doing this research, it reminded me of Marcus Aurelius. Do you know him? He's one of the Stoics and he was a Roman emperor and he said something about

Amy: Yeah. Dude. Mhm.

Whitney: It was you don't I'm going to get it wrong, but it's basically like, "You don't always have to have an opinion."

Amy: I love that.

Whitney: And that was so freeing for me because especially in the world now where there's so much information and everybody is trying to find out what you believe and and then you need to defend it, and it's okay to be like, "I don't have an opinion on that." And And I don't need to It is such a great thing for me to use in my own family

Amy: Right. Yeah.

Whitney: because I want to control everything in their lives and if they're doing something that I disagree with or think is wrong, I want to jump in and control it, and that is exhausting. And I have to go, "You know what? I don't have to have an opinion on where this kid goes to school. I don't have to have an opinion on whether they go to the beach or not." Like, you know, stupid stuff, you know?

Amy: Mm-hmm. You really don't. Right. Right, like using it on a very small scale. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah, start small and then you can work your way up.

Amy: I love I love that. That's really really important.

Whitney: But that kind of fits in with Arthur Brooks. Like, we're suffering needlessly by forcing ourselves to take a firm stance on things, on every topic, on the news event, on anything in in around you. We don't have to. So, the epistemic humility...

Amy: I know. Yes. Yes. That's such an interesting thing to model, too. Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't have an opinion on human injustice, right? Sure. But like every little thing, you could just say, "I'm still learning," you know, like and that's okay.

Whitney: Sure. And especially controlling other people. I I find it a lot when I have an opinion on other people's lives and how they're living it has nothing to do with me. And then I want to try to force them to believe and do what I want.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Whitney: And then I mean, I will work myself up into a frenzy usually late at night. My brain is going and I have to go, "This doesn't even concern me." And by the way, this isn't a life or death. No one's suffering here. It's just should they, you know, take their lunch to school or order it? Like stupid stuff, you know?

Amy: Right. Right. It doesn't matter.

Whitney: It doesn't matter. There's no There's no reason to get all worked up and take a stand.

Amy: Take a stand.

Whitney: Yeah. I don't need to take a stand on whether or not you take your granddaughter to the beach with your family. Like, do what you want!

Amy: Right. Right, right. Right.

Whitney: Why am I sleeping, you know, losing sleep over it? Yeah, so you recognize the limits of your knowledge rather than acting as the ultimate judge of the world.

Amy: Right. Right.

Whitney: And that's so true because if you you think you would do something a certain way until you're in their position. Like, if you've never walked in their shoes, you don't really know what the hell you're going to do.

Amy: Right. Right.

Whitney: I try to tell This is probably where I'm trying to force other people to think like me, but I'll tell my mom that. I'm like, "You're making all these judgments, but you have no idea until you're actually living that exact situation, you don't know what you would do." And then she stands her ground and goes, "Oh, yes, I do!", you know.

Amy: No, you don't. Really?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: She can't even like...

Whitney: Cuz she's old. No, I'm kidding. Sorry, mom. I'm just joking.

Amy: Well, she can't even let go to be like, "You're right. I You know what? I haven't been in that exact situation." It's that moment of really empathizing to the point where I was just listening to something about a mass shooting the other day and like the person talking about it was saying, you know, all these people were critical like, "Why didn't somebody do something that was in there?" I'm like, you really don't know how you're going to react until you're in that situation, God forbid. We don't want anyone in that situation. But like it's just so silly.

Whitney: She's learning. She does. Oh. No! Right. It's so easy to judge when it everything's already happened and unfolded. You really don't know. And just to go back to my mom for a minute, she does that a lot. Like I'm painting her as She's She has she actually does a great job a lot of the time of trying to see the other person's side of it.

Amy: It's interesting. That's good. That's good. I mean, a lot of this is like judgment, you know?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: Where are the spaces where we're judging and we can, you know, let go of, you know, let go of judgment.

Whitney: Yeah. I do it. Even like something stupid like somebody just recently got a nose ring and I was like, "Why would they do that?"

Amy: Who got a nose ring?

Whitney: My daughter's girlfriend. And my first reaction was just like, "Oh, my gosh! What is she doing?" Like, I started creating an opinion on it, and then I'm like, "Wait. I don't have to have an opinion on this. This isn't my life and she's a grown woman and she can do what she wants and she looks great."

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, it's I mean...

Whitney: And everyone has it.

Amy: You can always take it out.

Whitney: Yeah, right. And so many people have it now. It's not like in the '90s when my sister got hers.

Amy: Oh, my god! My child got a Garfield tattoo that is the dumbest tattoo I've ever seen, which I told them, "This is the dumbest tattoo I've ever seen," and they were like, "I know." And I was just like, it's a whole Garfield strip that just I'm like, "Why?" you know? But I had to just let my judgment go.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't impact your life whatsoever.

Amy: No, it doesn't.

Whitney: So, all right. So, we're going to

Amy: But it's really hard when it's your kids.

Whitney: Oh, it is so hard! I'm still trying to control everything. My kid came home the other day and he's got a mustache and his hair is like down to here.

Amy: Oh, he does! He has a mustache!

Whitney: He has a mustache and

Amy: Interesting.

Whitney: I'm not going to get I'm My ego is going to be quiet about it.

Amy: Does he look cute, though? I bet he looks really cute.

Whitney: So quiet. He's always precious, but not not the decision that I would have made.

Amy: I bet it's really cute.

Whitney: But, you know.

Amy: But mustaches are having a moment.

Whitney: I think every 20-something boy, probably even 17 to 25, they're going to try to grow a mustache.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: I mean, I

Amy: Just because they can.

Whitney: Just because they're like, "Oh, let's see how this grows in." By the way, not growing on not growing in great, but again,

Amy: Sure. So it looks... Live and learn.

Whitney: if you're happy with it, why do I have to have an opinion about it?

Amy: He's just he's curious.

Whitney: Yeah, I don't need to have an opinion about it.

Amy: No.

Whitney: Anyway, all right. So, here's some protocol that you can take home with you. How to quiet the ego. And I want to get I I have an opinion on one of these that I don't know All right.

Amy: Okay. I love it. Oh!

Whitney: I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm going to be curious.

Amy: All right, let's hear it. All right.

Whitney: And it's this one: it says deploy the circuit breaker for it's a It's the circuit breaker, all right? So, Arthur Brooks recommends a literal daily affirmation. And you like affirmations?

Amy: Fucking love affirmations! I use them non-stop, all the time.

Whitney: Okay, this is what this was his affirmation. Let me I'm going to see what you think about it. When entering a meeting, a difficult conversation, a family discussion, say to yourself out loud, "I might be wrong. I might be wrong."

Amy: I don't like that.

Whitney: I know! I don't like it either!

Amy: I don't like any negative affirmations. I I would shift that into, "I am open to possibilities."

Whitney: Me, either. Yes! I love it!

Amy: "I stay open to possibilities." Like, I'm good at like Like somebody once was like, "Oh, it's like um what What's meant for me can't miss me." And I was like, "Ew, you're Ew, that's wrong. No, what's meant for me will find me." You know, like flip it around to the positive always. And that one's just like, I don't want the word "wrong" in there. So, that's not something I'm going to repeat.

Whitney: Yes! "I will listen." Yeah. Agreed. And by the way, I don't know about you, but I in certain situations like that, like when I was trying to get an agent as an actor and I would go into these meetings, and my brain would already be going, "You're not good enough. You're You You're not good enough." So, going into a meeting, "I might be wrong," it to me, feeling your insecurity.

Amy: Yeah. Like you're hearing "wrong", you know, and like That's the thing. And And they I I really, truly believe that the universe doesn't really hear It's like if you say, "I want to be out of debt," you don't say that because you're just debt. Like debt, like, you know. You You You instead say, "I am in abundance. I am in surplus. I am I have more than enough money all the time." You know, like that kind of thing.

Whitney: I know what he's saying. Yes! "You're wrong. You're stupid." That's the thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you're calling that in. Yes.

Amy: Yeah, I agree with that.

Whitney: Yes, I love that. So, I like the idea of what he's saying, but I don't like that phrase. So, I love, "I'm open to possibilities." And I get it, like in a family discussion, or even most recently, I'm about to have a discussion with a family member that I care about and I know it's not going to go over well, and I'm already

Amy: I don't like that. Okay, well, you're already speculating there. It might go okay.

Whitney: Okay. You're right. I'm But I'm also already going in defensive.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: And so, I have to say, you know, "I'm I'm I'm open to possibilities. I am this is a this this is going to be a productive conversation, but also I need to listen."

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: Like, I need to listen and I need to hear them. That's why like in therapy, they'll say to you like if you're having a disagreement with your partner or something, you'll stop and say, "What I'm hearing you say is..." and then you repeat what you think they're saying. And nine times out of 10, they'll be like, "No, that's not what I was saying."

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, big time. Mm-hmm. Right, it's true. It's true.

Whitney: All right, so now we're going to talk about the protocol. We had a little battery issue.

Amy: Uh-huh. So, tell me about the protocol.

Whitney: The protocol for how to quiet the ego, what to do. All right, so give me your opinion on this. Actually, we already talked about that first part. So, let's let's Okay.

Amy: Okay. Yeah, we we covered that. We covered that. Okay.

Whitney: All right, so number two is catch your internal firewall. So, notice your physical reaction when someone challenges you on an opinion, if your chest tightens or you get reflux or like, I feel literally my blood boiling.

Amy: Mm-hmm. I feel it in my body.

Whitney: I can feel it. And that is a perfect indication that your loud ego has taken over.

Amy: Yeah. Ugh.

Whitney: And you have to pause and breathe and turn down the volume.

Amy: Yeah, I had something the other day come up, and it was somebody I haven't even met except via email, and like I got so wrapped up in it, I obsessed for like 3 hours and I was like, "What am I doing?" you know? And I was just obsessing. It was like, "Oh, my god! My eye just twitched, just telling you that."

Whitney: Oh, my gosh! Yeah. That's hilarious! And it wasn't even a person, it was just an email that got you worked up.

Amy: It was an email. It wasn't Well, I mean, just the way she kind of popped off and said something, I found it insulting as a She was like, "Well, this isn't a podcast." "Yeah, this isn't a podcast." Just one line, like flipped it back. And I was like cuz I was saying my experience with podcasts and some other things. So, a part of me wanted to be like, "I was just using that as an example and and and." And, plus, I just It was kind of insulting as a podcaster and I was thinking like, "Well, wait, what else is there? It's not a fucking network show." See, now here I go.

Whitney: Yeah. Right. Right. She's getting worked up. You need to pause. You need to pause, you need to breathe.

Amy: Here I go. And I start to feel like I'm spinning up here. It's wild.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, so again, we talk about awareness. Awareness is such a key to any all of this, that self-awareness. But, yeah, you need to catch your internal firewall.

Amy: Yeah, I feel a heat in my neck right now. It's my blood pressure. It's my blood pressure. It rises.

Whitney: Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so the circuit breaker was number one. Catch your internal firewall. Number three is use the magic script.

Amy: All right, do tell.

Whitney: The next time a colleague, a spouse, or friend catches you making a mistake or offers a better idea, suppress the urge to explain it away or make excuses, and instead use this exact phrase, "You know what? I hadn't looked at it that way. Maybe you're right."

Amy: I love that.

Whitney: "Hadn't looked at it that way."

Amy: "Hadn't looked at it that way. Maybe you're right."

Whitney: I don't know if I'd put the, "Maybe you're right," in there, but maybe just, "You know what? I hadn't looked at it that way." Depends on how evolved you are. I don't know that I could say, "Maybe you're right,"

Amy: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: but I can say, "I never looked at it that way."

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah, watch how fast it completely de-escalates the tension.

Amy: It's good!

Whitney: So, it's really more about making them get off their guard.

Amy: Yeah. Well, they feel heard. If you say, "I haven't looked at it that way," that indicates Like, if you say that to me, that would indicate to me that, "Oh, you actually listened

Whitney: Yeah. That validates. You were listening.

Amy: and valued what I said, yeah." And like And And so, you heard me. You just feel heard.

Whitney: And valued what I said. You heard me. All right, and then the fourth thing that you can try out in this quieting your ego protocol is separate separate identity from opinion. So, remind yourself that you are not your thoughts or your current strategies. Your thoughts are just tools that you use. And if a tool is broken or outdated, you don't defend it, you replace it.

Amy: Mm-hmm. Yeah! Get a new tool!

Whitney: You swap it out for a better tool.

Amy: Wow, I love that!

Whitney: Changing your mind isn't hypocrisy, it's the ultimate sign of high intelligence.

Amy: Damn right. There you go.

Whitney: Exactly. I definitely want someone who feels comfortable enough to to say, "You know what? I'm going to change my mind on that."

Amy: Well, that's good. Yeah, like yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole world of possibilities out there.

Whitney: Yeah, a max life requires you to turn down the volume on your ego. The world moves so fast and your potential is so high, you don't need to spend your energy defending mistakes.

Amy: Yeah. Right.

Whitney: And that's what you're doing, ultimately, is defending mistakes. True confidence isn't knowing all the answers, it's about having the strength to say, "I don't know. Let's find out."

Amy: Defending mistakes, you're right. Yeah. And I I don't know if it's necessarily defending mistakes, but a lot of times, it's just defending patterns, defending unconscious

Whitney: Mistakes Yeah.

Amy: ways of doing things.

Whitney: Or outdated thoughts. How about that? Outdated thoughts, outdated strategies

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Outdated. Yes, yes.

Whitney: that don't work, or may have never worked.

Amy: Yeah, maybe. Maybe never worked, or maybe worked once, or maybe whatever. Right?

Whitney: Yeah. Or maybe whatever.

Amy: So, like there's there's just always different possibilities. That's really cool.

Whitney: Yes, exactly. So, we've covered the curves, the portfolio, the circle, the mindset. Next week is the grand finale on my limited series,

Amy: I've enjoyed this very much.

Whitney: and we're bringing it all home for part five, Happiness is a Habit. We're going to lock in the ultimate daily routine to make sure these shifts stick for the rest of your life.

Amy: Oh, you know I love a routine! I'm very excited. And you know what? I've been working on my own happiness and the things that I know bring me happiness, so this has been really good to hear because I have known that there are things that I should be doing, should, I don't love the word "should", but I've known that there are more beneficial things that I can be doing. And so, I have been doing those. Yesterday, for instance, I meditated and I did my writing with I'm reading The Artist's Way, and so I'm really trying to dial into that.

Whitney: Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Amy: I I stopped vaping and smoking.

Whitney: Oh, you did?

Amy: I did. I did. I committed during my blood work. Well, it's only been a day, but

Whitney: Congratulations! That's okay, one day at a time.

Amy: I've noticed how It affects my anxiety level, like you know, I said that about my anxiety. Well, hi! I'm taking in a bunch of nicotine, that's not good, and chemicals and shit. So, I've cut that out. Like, I'm doing the things that I know will benefit me and like that's what it takes, consistency and and making it a habit.

Whitney: Of course! Right. And constant self-awareness of like what What am I putting out into the world? What is the world putting into me? How do I feel in this moment?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: How do I do a reset?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: Am I being loud or am I being quiet?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: I'm usually loud.

Amy: Let's be loud non-ego. Let's be loud and non-ego.

Whitney: Let's be loud and non-ego. That's right.

Amy: Loud fun! Loud curiosity!

Whitney: That's right. We're trying to have Loud acceptance!

Amy: That's right. Loud happiness.

Whitney: Exactly. Anything but mid.

Amy: I like that. Anything but mid! Yes! So, please let us know your thoughts. We want to hear them, comment, share with a friend, all that good stuff. Thank you so much for being here, and we do what we want.

Whitney: We do what we want.

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