Sober Curious

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Amy: I'm Amy.

Whitney: I'm Whitney, and maybe midlife. But you're anything but mid.

Amy: We'll get it.

Whitney: Good job. I was staring at the wrong camera.

Amy: I'm staring, oh yeah, I was too. God, dude.

Whitney: We were watching ourselves instead of looking at the camera.

Amy: Oh you know, anyway.

Whitney: That's fine.

Amy: That's mid in itself.

Whitney: That is so true.

Amy: So mid.

Whitney: So true.

Amy: So very mid.

Whitney: Did you have a mid moment this week?

Amy: Oh my God. My life is just a series of mid moments that then I can't remember.

Whitney: I'll tell you my my most recent one was this morning when I wanted to text you, and I couldn't remember your name. Isn't that horrific?

Amy: Really?

Whitney: I went to the phone, and I was like, oh yeah, I'm going to text her to tell her that da da da. And then I'm just staring, like.

Amy: No way. Wow.

Whitney: The name just went totally out of my brain. When is that going to end?

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: I'm on all the stuff. Is it testosterone? I don't know.

Amy: I got I got my testosterone back on. So that is Okay, so we need to address this too. What I'm doing supplement-wise, my experiment. My grand experiment.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Yes. You want to talk about it right this second and then and then do a whole episode at the end of the month?

Amy: Well, it'll be three months that we're Oh, so we'll just talk about it. I just want to talk about it in case anybody wants to follow and get on board.

Whitney: Agreed. I want to follow and get on.

Amy: Yes. But you know what, you should wait for my results too. So I did add testosterone. So okay, I did this episode on algae. With the founder of ENERGYbits.

Whitney: We didn't do the episode. You did it on your Amy Edwards Show.

Amy: Right, I'll put a link, because I was waiting to talk about this till it was out.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, I haven't.

Amy: It wasn't going to be out till November. So it's called I'm grabbing some of the literature. It's called ENERGYbits and

Whitney: We need to work on the name a little bit.

Amy: I know. I don't love the name, but whatever.

Whitney: ENERGYbits.

Amy: ENERGYbits, I think she calls it that because it is not a supplement, it is food. I would liken it more to taking a handful of almonds, eating in a handful of almonds or something.

Whitney: Right, or seaweed, or whatever.

Amy: Yes, but she says seaweed is macro, algae is micro. It's where all the actual nutrients live, and so plant-based bits of food. So it's plant-based nutrition, so she is 69 years old.

Whitney: She looks amazing.

Amy: And she is kicking ass and taking names.

Whitney: Yeah. And how long has she been on that algae?

Amy: She's been doing it for 16 years, and she founded the company, and she is 69 years old, just got her PhD last year at 68.

Whitney: Okay. Wow.

Amy: Doesn't take anything else. She's got amazing hair.

Whitney: That sounds exhausting.

Amy: I know it does. She's got amazing hair. She doesn't take any other supplements, no pharmaceuticals. She her skin She doesn't even get botox, her skin looks great. I know. I know.

Whitney: And, okay, so she so you interview her, she sends you the bits. And there's ENERGYbits, and there's sleep bits.

Amy: No, they're all called ENERGYbits. Some are are Well, actually no, that's not true.

Whitney: I thought one was AM and one was PM.

Amy: You're right. One is ENERGYbits, then one is RECOVERYbits, which is chlorella. The other one is spirulina, and then there's BEAUTYbits, which is a mix.

Whitney: Oh, I love it.

Amy: Sorry. And then there's VITALITYbits, which those are just mixes of the other. So I'm only taking

Whitney: So you're taking the top two.

Amy: the blue and green ones, yeah. So I was at this Crossroads in my supplements anyway, because

Whitney: Yeah, you had taken you'd taken everything, gotten rid of everything.

Amy: Because my face was breaking out.

Whitney: Right, cuz it's all about the acne.

Amy: I I'm I can't stand for that.

Whitney: I mean, you're like, I don't really care.

Amy: No, I know. It's like, when it starts popping up on your face, that's when It's like if my car, if I I can have all kinds of things going on wrong with my car, but if the radio stops working, I'm immediately at the dealership. Yeah.

Whitney: Everything else, I'm like, oh those tires, I can wait on that. The radio goes out, dealership. That's how our face is, like acne, breaking out, dealership.

Amy: Unacceptable, because it was all on my cheeks, I've never broken out there.

Whitney: Doing something. Yeah.

Amy: And I was like, this is not happening. So I mean I cut down I cut out the things I was putting on my face. I cut out, well, I was smoking and vaping.

Whitney: Yeah, that's right. You did.

Amy: Cut that out. I stopped, that could have been the problem. Cut out all my supplements, I mean, just I was like, this

Whitney: Did you do this under a doctor's recommendation? Or like, so you just cold turkey-ed everything.

Amy: I was like, "Fuck it. We're getting to a baseline." I was like, "Fuck it, I do not care." And like, if one popped up again, I'd just find more stuff to cut out, like whether it was something on my face or whatever, yeah.

Whitney: That's a little dangerous though, right? Sugar. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah, and I was just like, "I'm so pissed." So it's it's healing.

Whitney: It's healing. It's healing.

Amy: It's healing, so.

Whitney: But in addi- so you cut out everything.

Amy: I cut out everything, so I was at this sort of baseline, and I happened to have my blood work done around that time with Ways2Well. And so I said, "Look," it was the same, like the day after I interviewed her. And so I was like, "I want to just try this experiment." And my blood work professional was like,

Whitney: Right. Yeah. "Let's do it."

Amy: "I am so on board with this, let's try it." And I was like, "Cool." So I did decide to keep, of course, my thyroid medication, which is Synthroid, a compounded Synthroid,

Whitney: Yes. A necessity.

Amy: and then Yes, a necessity, I'm not going to mess with that. And then I also decided to keep to put back in testosterone, so I'm not using as much, because we've talked about this.

Whitney: Yeah, you don't want discolorations or unwanted hair.

Amy: I am using No, so I'm using it on my arms, so we'll see. It'll get hairy, it'll probably do something to my nipples, but I'm using just a little bit, because mine went like low, low off the charts, crazy, and then back to low.

Whitney: Yeah. That's how mine was too, and I got off all my testosterone, but I've been very irritable and I have been

Amy: Mm.

Whitney: weepy.

Amy: Oh, irritable and weepy. Fun.

Whitney: Yes. And and just like no patience, you know. Just annoyed. Like my poor boyfriend, he'll just be like, "Hey, do you think that you might" I'm like, "Why would you think that?"

Amy: Really? A snappy.

Whitney: He doesn't say anything though about it, but I have been snappy and crying. So I don't know, I've I've slowly added back in testosterone on my own. But just for This is the second day, so.

Amy: Okay. I'm on like I'm about five days in.

Whitney: And no estrogen though?

Amy: No, I'm not taking estrogen.

Whitney: Oh, wow. Oh.

Amy: I know. This is a wild. That's what she said.

Whitney: This is a wild. That's what she said.

Amy: It's I'm wild, but my estrogen is really high. Like, just naturally.

Whitney: That's good.

Amy: Yeah, when I did my blood work, she's like, "It's good." So, and I'm still having a period and stuff, so.

Whitney: Oh, that's right. I forget. You're not You're not menopause.

Amy: Yeah, I'm not I'm not in menopause yet. I I literally So doing this algae Now I'm, what, I don't know, a couple weeks in or whatever it is, I had one of the most intense periods that I've had almost ever.

Whitney: Two weeks in. I thought you were going to say orgasm, and I was like, "Sign me up."

Amy: That's what testosterone's supposed to do.

Whitney: Oh, intense period, no thanks.

Amy: Yeah, I had an intense period. And so like I had cramps for days, I had a longer period, I used more tampons than I have in years. I was like, "What in the fuck?" And so, and I think my night sweats are subsiding. So I don't know.

Whitney: Okay. Okay. Wow.

Amy: So I don't know.

Whitney: Wait, you think they're subsiding or that you know, like last night did you wake up in a pool of your own sweat?

Amy: No. No, and so I feel like they're tapering off. And instead of my burning orb, my legs are sweating, so I don't know what that means. So, yeah. That could be the testosterone.

Whitney: Oh. Interesting.

Whitney: So so far you've got two weeks in on the algae, and

Amy: Yes, so I'm taking all the algae you take, I know this sounds crazy, but you have to look at it like it's a it's a handful of seeds or something. It's food, and so I take 15

Whitney: Yeah, this is insane.

Amy: in the morning.

Whitney: But they're teeny, teeny, tiny. I saw them, they're very, very tiny.

Amy: The little tablets. And they taste pretty good if you chew them up, but they turn your teeth

Whitney: Oh, that's what I was going to ask. Green.

Amy: if you chew them. They turn your teeth pretty

Whitney: Does she recommend chewing or swallowing?

Amy: She likes to chew them, but

Whitney: Well, that's also something with the body, like chewing does something with I don't know, I can't remember the science, but it activates stuff, yeah.

Amy: Yeah, it activates.

Whitney: Yep, exactly.

Amy: So sometimes I chew, but mostly I just throw them down my throat with some water. And so

Whitney: Yeah. 15 in the morning and then the PM ones are 15?

Amy: 15 in the afternoon and then 30 before bed, which is the RECOVERYbits, chlorella.

Whitney: Okay, so 30 total of the AM ones and 30 total of the 30 and 30, yep. And but you say it's like food, but you don't feel full or anything, it's just like

Amy: I feel less hungry, I feel like I might be getting nutrients and satisfied.

Whitney: I feel like I may be getting nutrients. Well, I remember you said two days after you started it and two days later you were like, "I think I looked different."

Amy: Yes, but I just I thought I looked better. I did, I thought my body looked better. However, I did have some gastrointestinal unrest.

Whitney: Yes. That's a very, very classy way to say severe diarrhea.

Amy: It is, cuz trust me, it was not classy.

Whitney: It was anything but classy.

Amy: It was not, and so.

Whitney: Anything but classy. And so, did she give you a heads up? And of course, we'll encourage everybody go listen to the episode, I won't ask you all the questions, but.

Amy: No. Yeah. I mean the the claims of this algae are name it, name it, they claim it. It's good for

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, better better skin, hair, energy.

Amy: cells

Whitney: Your sleep.

Amy: are are regenerating, all the stuff like what's it called, antioxidants. You know, all that good stuff, like I could picture it, I was picturing some blueberries,

Whitney: Oh, yeah. The the anti. Oh, yeah.

Amy: like that. So I don't know, we're just I am the guinea pig.

Whitney: But you're feeling better.

Amy: I do. I feel good.

Whitney: But like in your It could be just a mental game, but in your your body, you feel better. And your sleep is good?

Amy: My sleep is great.

Whitney: And you have been in a very good mood the last few times I've seen you. Not that you aren't normally, but just a little bouncier.

Amy: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. So we're going to see, we're going to see. So I'll do my Ooh. I I don't even want to wait, I just want to jump in. But I've got to get off I've got so much going on in my pill box and my coffee and

Amy: Well, that's what that's what she said when she when we did the interview, she goes, "I just was on Dave Asprey's and he said he took like a hundred things." And she was like, "I mean that's kind of the point of our podcast is it's like too much." So can

Whitney: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It's overwhelming.

Amy: So this is perfect timing for this experiment, cuz like, what if

Whitney: No coincidences.

Amy: What if I feel really good, and cuz I was like, "How long does this take to activate and feel used?"

Whitney: She said immediate, right?

Amy: She said 15 minutes. Like, food. And so, isn't that what we're desiring, to get stuff from food, to get stuff naturally anyway? Like, our body's going to re- respond to that. She's like, "This doesn't have any contraindications with medicines you're taking, with anything like that." And I'm like,

Whitney: Yes. Right. "Fuck yeah." So you and then when when you eat regular food, there's nothing, she's not like, "Well don't eat this, cut out."

Amy: No. No, she eats a normal diet.

Whitney: Interesting. All right, well we're going to keep watching you.

Amy: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Whitney: But can I ask one more question? What is the cost?

Amy: Yes, 10 more, five more.

Whitney: Do you know the cost? I know she gave you a discount to try it.

Amy: But she gave me a Oh, it's She gave me a discount code, but if you just go to their website it's the same discount that they give, which is 20% off. So if you sign up for their emails, but you can use my name too, just Amy Edwards.

Whitney: Yeah. Well, it's nice It's nice to let them know that you heard it from Amy, because then that just validates that they she did the right thing by going on your podcast.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that, I'll put it in the show notes, but But put it in the show notes.

Whitney: Put it in the show notes. Put it The old put it in the show notes. P-I- don't, I won't even honor that.

Amy: I I T S H P-I-I-T-S-H

Whitney: You can't even remember DIY, so. Yeah.

Amy: I tried, I tried.

Whitney: Not going to remember that. Anyway.

Amy: She so for a bag of a thousand pills, so you can get a month's worth, which is like 360 or something like that, but for a bag of a thousand, which is what I got. It's $120, so it's a little high.

Whitney: But honestly, Amy, the amount of money that I First of all, the Blueprint package or whatever, subscription protocol that I'm using is about $125 a month. Then I'm getting the MUD\WTR.

Amy: That's $125 a month? This guy is making a killing.

Whitney: But you're getting all of these I mean like I can you know, we're going to run through our supplements in one episode, but like I I'm getting everything. Like when I went to a functional health doctor and showed him all the stuff, he was like, "Oh, wow, you're you're getting it all." But does it even really matter? Like I don't know, and that's just one thing.

Amy: Is the timing right?

Whitney: Then I'm doing the MUD\WTR, then I'm doing my regular prescription medications, then I'm doing extra B12, which not expensive, but you know what I mean, I'm definitely spending way over $125 a month.

Amy: Are you absorbing it? Wow. You should calculate how much you're spending.

Whitney: That's math.

Amy: It's important.

Whitney: You should calculate how much I'm spending.

Amy: I should.

Whitney: No, I can already tell you without doing, you know, a of specific numbers, I'm I'm spending more than that a month on the stuff that I'm getting, for sure. And then I get little extra things like peptides and

Amy: How much were those?

Whitney: you know The GHK-Cu peptide that I'm on right now, oh shoot, I forgot to inject myself today. Anyway,

Amy: You have to do it every day?

Whitney: for this particular peptide, you do it every day. It's a It's a three peptide thing, it's a tripeptide.

Amy: Tripeptide, tripeptide.

Whitney: And you do it every day for 30 days or something.

Amy: In your tummy?

Whitney: You know, anywhere fleshy, but remember I'm doing it in my C-sec or above my C-section scar.

Amy: Oh right. God, that hurts, it's so sensitive.

Whitney: Cuz it's supposed to help with scarring. But anyway, that little vial was $100 $100 and that's cheap. It's $100 and I'm going to get multiple. Usually like peptides are more like 250 for 1 month, you know, for four injections or something like that.

Amy: Interesting. Okay.

Whitney: Or 200 for four injections. Anyway, Damn. getting off of the the thing, but It's expensive to to look this good.

Amy: Damn. Tell me about it. I understand.

Whitney: So if we can just cut all that shit out and just eat 60 little tiny algae pills a day, I'm in. So we'll keep up with it.

Amy: Yeah. I just I put them in these little cup, my little plastic cup.

Whitney: Yeah, you have these funny

Amy: I have these little plastic ramekins, which I probably shouldn't use plastic, I should probably switch.

Whitney: Very true.

Amy: I know, and so I use those and then I just knock them back. Boom.

Whitney: All at once in your mouth at once?

Amy: All at once.

Whitney: Oh, cuz they are very tiny.

Amy: I take a sip of water and then cluck, cluck, and then they got caught in my throat.

Whitney: Like a shot, an algae shot.

Amy: It is.

Whitney: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, I'm excited.

Amy: I I'm kind of enjoy I just enjoy like experimenting and seeing what happens, so. So, come like January, I'm going to do the blood work and we're going to see.

Whitney: Same. Yeah, that's good. And I'll keep doing my GHK-Cu peptide, and we'll we'll see if that makes a difference.

Amy: I mean You look glowy.

Whitney: Thank you. It's supposed to help with the elasticity, but I also did that Sculptra, so my face is hopefully going to look

Amy: Oh. It does look fuller.

Whitney: fuller anyway, already.

Amy: Wow, yeah. I need to probably do that.

Whitney: I don't think you're seeing any of the effects of that yet, it takes

Amy: It does take a while, yeah.

Whitney: full months, yeah. Then I forgot.

Amy: And then you forgot you've You forget you've done it. So, yeah. I have a couple of updates. So, DIY beauty we just did recently, and I talked about makeup. I had on a full face of makeup with lashes and the whole nine yards. I was going to go through my day. I left our recording, looked in the mirror, and felt like I looked like a clown.

Whitney: Oh no. A clown, that happens to me a lot too.

Amy: I washed it all off.

Whitney: I did not You took your eyelashes off?

Amy: Took the whole thing off.

Whitney: Oh, yeah.

Amy: I was

Whitney: Let's call the whole thing off.

Amy: I called it off, and I washed my face. So here's my problem, the older I get, the more I look at myself without makeup and I think, "I need makeup." And then I look at myself with makeup, and I'm like, "I look ridiculous."

Whitney: All right. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Yes.

Amy: So, I I don't know where my balances, so I'm trying something completely new now that my face is healed, too, I'm feeling better, but I just don't I don't want to wear that much makeup.

Whitney: Well, that's why I do a tinted moisturizer.

Amy: Yes, me too.

Whitney: And I mean, especially for me because I have freckles, I like my freckles to show.

Amy: You got to let them shine. You can't.

Whitney: They got to shine, baby.

Amy: It would look weird if you

Whitney: Well, and it already does look weird, even my chest to my face, because I'll do lasers and stuff.

Amy: No, it doesn't. It looks

Whitney: And I have done lasers here, but not as much as on my face, so there is an inconsistency anyway. And then just, you know, you're rubbing on your face more, but.

Amy: It looks good, it looks good.

Whitney: Thank you. Anyway, I that's why I do tinted moisturizer. Honestly, you know, I wouldn't go Pamela Anderson on it,

Amy: No, I don't want to do that either.

Whitney: but I do think as you get older less is more, because if you're putting on cakey foundation and stuff, it's getting in all of those little crevices.

Amy: Boy, is it.

Whitney: Which is why then you have to use a primer and all that stuff.

Amy: And that doesn't even work.

Whitney: Cream-based stuff, and I like translucent stuff, or you know, just tinted moisturizer.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, so it's just a more about skin care, really. And so I just, I don't know.

Whitney: Well, the algae will help with that too, like It's supposed to. if it's brightening. Oh, that's another thing, I just bought the vitamin C serum. It's just

Amy: Yep. What kind did you get?

Whitney: Well, I can't remember the name of it, but I a friend of mine, I joined a subscription or something,

Amy: Oh, for fuck's sake.

Whitney: because my friend is selling it and I was like, "I'll try it."

Amy: She's selling it?

Whitney: Well, I mean it's kind of like Arbonne or something? No, no, it's Melaleuca or something.

Amy: Oh, I've never heard of that.

Whitney: It it it's a whole line of like beauty products and cleaning products and everything's supposed to be organic and stuff, and I was like, "I'll try it." So, I went online and instead of getting like laundry detergent, I got vitamin C serum.

Amy: Does it smell weird? I just hate the smell.

Whitney: I haven't opened it yet, it just came yesterday. But if you look at my bathroom counter now, it's just like bottles of stuff, and I'm like, I don't even know

Amy: Take a picture of that, let's put it on our Instagram.

Whitney: Yeah, I will. I don't even know the order I should be, you know. I got some Goop stuff, I got some CVS stuff, I got now this new stuff. Anyway.

Amy: Yeah, I really was like on a mission with this acne, and so I used Differin,

Whitney: Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. That's pretty good shit. That's what my kids used in high school to get rid of their stuff, yeah.

Amy: Really? I used that and then I mixed it The Ordinary has a powder that's like a sulfur powder for acne, and so I put the acne sulfur powder and I just did that and dabbed it in. That's really made a difference. And then oh, also DIY, I wanted to add that I have a high-frequency wand and I'm a big fan. And so

Whitney: This isn't the vagina wand that you're talking about?

Amy: No, this is a high-frequency wand. Sometimes they use it during a facial, and it's like a clear glass tube and they'll put it, and it buzzes and it smells like oxygen and it's like

Whitney: I don't know what that means. Oh.

Amy: electricity, but it's

Whitney: You just got that?

Amy: No, I've used it for many years, and I'm a huge fan. And so

Whitney: And so you use it on your

Amy: It kills bacteria and stuff. Like, if you have a pimple

Whitney: Oh, I oh yes, yes. I bought this for Hayden after he went to He has really bad acne, but that's a whole another story, because he also it has to do with the gut, like

Amy: Interesting.

Whitney: there's more stuff going on, and I won't share his personal story on a podcast.

Amy: His gastrointestinal journey.

Whitney: But, but the that aesthetician told me to get it, and then he never used it, so I returned it, but maybe I should get it again. Do you use it I thought you just use it on your like, on spots, but you can use it

Amy: You can use it all over, and it'll heal like the

Whitney: The scarring and

Amy: red

Whitney: the red under the under the skin stuff.

Amy: Yes, broken capillaries, stuff like that, too. Yeah, so I forget about it and I kind of go through phases, but I have it out on my counter right now and I use it all the time.

Whitney: I'm going to reorder it and have it, and I'll try it, and then I'm going to There's Hayden.

Amy: There's a you're going to like this. There are different ones that attachments for hair.

Whitney: But I'm already doing the red light therapy.

Amy: Yeah, okay.

Whitney: But I mean

Amy: Anyway, I don't know if it works, but it's got that.

Whitney: But you were very excited to say, "You can run it through your hair."

Amy: Yes, so.

Whitney: Well, maybe I'll try it.

Amy: So that was I needed to say that. And then also, I forgot to say my DIY for my lashes.

Whitney: Oh, castor oil or something?

Amy: No, but yes, but I also sometimes use the fiber mascara. So,

Whitney: Oh. Yeah, yeah.

Amy: it has a little lash fibers, so.

Whitney: Thrive Causemetics?

Amy: Thrive Causemetics makes one.

Whitney: Yeah, but you know what? The the issue that I had with that mascara was that those fibers then just like fall off on your face.

Amy: Yep. They do, yep. So

Whitney: And that was so annoying.

Amy: it is annoying, so annoying that I decided to stop now, and I bought a tubing mascara off TikTok, so we'll see how that goes.

Whitney: Oh, I just use Great Lash, but oh, well now I have the fake ones. Yeah.

Amy: But, you have extensions. Your extensions look really good.

Whitney: I just got them done yesterday, but I don't think I can keep it up, man. Plus

Amy: Why?

Whitney: Well, because it's a commitment. It's it's a commitment of every 2 weeks, and I just

Amy: What's hilarious is I've got plenty of time.

Whitney: But I just, I don't like to have to go somewhere. I don't like to be Like, you have to come in.

Amy: Fucking hate it. That's why I want to DIY.

Whitney: Yeah, and so I'm glad, you know, I I don't know, I do love the way that they look and I literally don't I put mascara on the bottom lashes,

Amy: They look really pretty. They look really pretty.

Whitney: and I just got them done. But I had to sit there for an hour, I fell asleep, which is embarrassing, but everyone falls asleep.

Amy: Why? That's good.

Whitney: Cuz I wake up going, [snort].

Amy: Where do you go?

Whitney: Betty Lash, because it's right by my house.

Amy: It's not even that far.

Whitney: I know. It's so terrible. But I will say this, I will say this, the busier you are, the more you get stuff done. When you have a lot of time on your hands, time just slips away.

Amy: Yes, it's this I heard this like analogy once, it's like or not analogy, but whatever. It's like, if you ask somebody who has like five things to do to do something, three things to do, it's a lot. But if you ask someone who has a thousand things or a hundred things, it's like, what's one more?

Whitney: Yeah. It's just Yeah. I feel like I was so much more productive when my three kids were at home. I had to be out and dressed by 7:00 a.m. And now it's like 9:00 a.m. And I'm like, meh.

Amy: Right. Where's my steak taco?

Whitney: Yeah, where

Amy: Sorry, that's not your voice.

Whitney: Hey, where is my steak taco?

Amy: Where's my steak taco?

Whitney: All right. Anyway,

Amy: All right. We have been yakking away, so.

Whitney: but I love it, and all of this is, you know, I hope, I would assume, it's interesting to me. So this could just be one episode, and then we do another episode about what we were going to talk about today.

Amy: Me too. No, we're going to move forward. This is We just had to catch up on some business. So, now we're getting to sober-curious. Let's do this, let's do this. I have pages printed up, I'm ready to roll.

Whitney: Okay. So, Amy has been It's weird to even say, "Oh, you've been sober," because it makes it sound like there was an issue before. But is there a different name that we should be saying? I guess not. She hasn't taken a sip of alcohol.

Amy: I don't know, I don't know. I have this list. That's not true. I have taken I have taken several sips.

Whitney: Oh, okay.

Amy: Yeah, I did a sip maybe two years ago, and I drank one glass of dessert wine on a flight home from Egypt.

Whitney: Dessert wine. Oh, I fucking love dessert wine. Well, oh, really?

Amy: Oh, it's so You missed out.

Whitney: I always think of, did you watch Grease? You know the movie Grease.

Amy: I have it memorized.

Whitney: Okay, well remember when she's like, "It says here it's a dessert wine."

Amy: "Oh, it says here, this is a dessert wine."

Whitney: "This is a dessert wine." Yes. Jan, Jan, I believe says that.

Amy: Jan. "Brusha, brusha, brusha." Yeah. You're right. Well, I love a good dessert wine, like really good.

Whitney: Anyway. Well, so, for so for 3 years, you you took alcohol out of your life for the most part,

Amy: Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Whitney: and you did have you still have a partner that is in recovery, so that is helpful when you're doing it together. But when you got that dessert wine, did you feel like it was the tastiest thing you've ever had?

Amy: I was just going to take a sip, and I drank the whole glass.

Whitney: Oh, well. [laughter] Well, let's not get crazy. A whole glass. Even if you'd said the whole bottle, it's an airplane bottle, so.

Amy: A whole glass. Oh, I don't even know. It was just I was under pressure from the flight attendant, who was French, and she was really bothered that I wouldn't try it. She was like, "Don't you want something with some flavor?" And I was like, "I have a beautiful dessert wine." And I was like, "Bring it on." I just got engaged, bring it on. I was coming home from Egypt, we were in

Whitney: You Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: business class, flat out. So I was like, "Let's do this, let's do this."

Whitney: Yeah. So nice. Let's do it.

Amy: And I was glad I did. You know what, fine.

Whitney: I mean, you've got to live a little.

Amy: So I I'm not making like Yeah, I'm not making like such hard rules that that never. I'm not saying never, because I am not.

Whitney: Well, I think when you do that, it makes it harder to adhere. Like if you think, "I'm never doing this again,"

Amy: Maybe.

Whitney: then you want to do it.

Amy: I just kind of leave it like, who knows? This is an experiment, that's how I took it on. And I knew it was outside my comfort zone, just like the algae, it's an experiment. Let's see what happens. That's how I approach a lot of things. Because when I think about the rest of my life, it's too much. So it started on April 14th, I believe, 2022, one, two? Yeah, so it's just been three and a half years.

Whitney: That's Yeah.

Amy: On October 14th it was three and a half years. And so we're at 3 years and

Whitney: I'm so glad you gave us dates.

Amy: Mm-hmm, yep. 43 months, if you want to talk in like toddler time.

Whitney: I love it.

Amy: So I did it because it was outside my comfort zone and I knew Justin wanted to stay sober, and plus, I'm a fucking blackout drunk. I drank enough. Like, come on, let's be real. I have drank way enough, way too much.

Whitney: No, I'm still on that train.

Amy: I love it, I loved it.

Whitney: Not blackout, but

Amy: Oh, I I mean, when people are like, "I blacked out once," I'm like, "What?"

Whitney: Well, but let's be honest, what does blackout mean? I If you're like

Amy: You don't remember.

Whitney: literally blackout drunk, but there are definitely moments in the night where I'm like, "I don't really remember having that conversation with you."

Amy: Yates, my friend Yates, who, RIP, he called that a brownout instead of a blackout. So a brownout, you know, you just lose a little power. Power goes down.

Whitney: Yeah. That's so great.

Amy: It's true. And so I interviewed Amanda Kuda, who is a sober coach for women, and I

Whitney: What's Do you remember the name of her She has a book.

Amy: She has a book, it's called Unbottled Potential. I will link it in the show notes. And so, she was like, "90 days, you'll start manifesting and all this stuff will happen, blah, blah." And I was like,

Whitney: Okay, let's try it. Let's see.

Amy: "Okay, let's try it." So I got to 90 days, I didn't Nothing magic didn't start happening, but I was like, "I'll keep going." Got to 6 months, decided to keep going, cuz I did feel better. Got to a year, and I just kind of kept extending. But finally at 2 years, I was like, "What the When's the magic happening?" I called her and I was like, "What in the world? I'm not seeing magic happening." But then I think it did. I think that at 2 years So Andrew Huberman has a podcast on sobriety, have you listened?

Whitney: Mm-hmm. No, but I know the Huberman Lab.

Amy: It's great. Well, he says it really takes 2 years to get alcohol completely out of your system.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. That makes

Amy: And for someone like me who was like 50 years old and had drank for I don't know, 30-something years, I think it was pretty well entrenched in there, and it just took a long time to get out. Like it, I think

Whitney: All the cells had to regenerate, yeah.

Amy: Oh, my god. They were like traumatized. And so I just I just I just feel like when you have that much of a history of drinking, and it's so deeply entrenched

Whitney: Which by the way, it's not like you're an alcoholic, this is this is most people's story, I think, that drink and you know, that don't that aren't addicts necessarily. We it's just we have alcohol in every situation.

Amy: Every setting. Every setting.

Whitney: Yeah. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, after dinner.

Amy: Yep. Yep. And I just and I thought, too, how much I drank around my kids and like, showing them that I need that to have fun. And once I asked myself that question, I was like, "Fuck, I don't want to model that to them."

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Right.

Amy: "I don't want to show them that"

Whitney: Too late for my kids.

Amy: "life is" I mean, I didn't I just Kind of was for me too, but I went ahead and and did it. And I was like, "I want them to see that you can have a good time" "without alcohol." And I just thought, that became really important to me. And one time Sydney snuck someone into the house, and like yeah, but I saw her texts from what she had texted that kid that she snuck in, and she was like, "Oh, my drunk mom outside." And I was like, "I don't want to be referred to as that."

Whitney: Oh, I remember that. Oh, no. That's hurtful.

Amy: It made me feel bad. And so yeah, so. Also, Huberman distinguishes in that podcast, the way alcohol affects some people versus others. There are people that it just puts to sleep, and and then there's another per- set of people, that is me and literally all my friends, and it gives us energy and we can stay up drinking till all hours.

Whitney: Yes, that is also me. And then the different alcohols can

Amy: Oh, it's all my friends.

Whitney: Yeah. Oh, right. I am actually.

Amy: Those are the No, that's the people I attract, and I was like, "Oh, my gosh, this is us. We're all in this together." And like

Whitney: Yeah. That's crazy. I I mean, I we already know. It's funny, I was driving over here, and my mom I was talking to my mom on the phone and she was like, "Well, what are y'all going to talk about today?" And I go, "We're going to talk about being you know, sober and and how it impacts you." And she goes, "Well, it doesn't take a genius to know it's going to be way better." And I was like, "I know. I'm hoping that maybe something new will come up and say, 'No, it's actually not that bad for you.'"

Amy: No amount is safe, apparently.

Whitney: I know, it's such a bummer. But I guess for people that are sober-curious like myself, we want to hear, how is it how is it over there, just being sober at the party, you know? Do you notice more energy? Do you sleep better? Do you I mean, it's all the things, cuz I remember when you it was probably within that first 2-year mark, and you're like, "I don't really feel any different."

Amy: Yeah. Okay. I'm about to tell you. Right, it was tough, it was It was really challenging for me because it was just breaking these patterns that I had so deeply ingrained.

Whitney: But it was helpful that you did it, your partner was also doing it, right? I feel like if you're going to try to do this, you need to kind of get all your friends on board, which is why Dry January, I think, is so popular, because if you can have everybody doing it, then you But most of my friends that do Dry January just don't, I never see them. They're just home. They're at home.

Amy: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Agreed. Yeah, right. Well, I mean you don't want to go out the same way. It's different, it changes your socialization and like your community and stuff, you have to find other things to do. You and I go for walks.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: And that's an interesting facet too, because in the Blue Zones, they're like, "Oh, a glass of wine a day," but really they're drinking wine in community with others.

Whitney: Right, it's all about community.

Amy: And so is it about community, or you know, that's really probably what it's about. And so, that's really like this fake causality, whatever that's called, so.

Whitney: I think that's what it's called.

Amy: Anyway. So, yeah.

Whitney: False causality, or like it's

Amy: False causality.

Whitney: Fake news.

Amy: Fake news. So let's talk about some of the benefits. I feel like I am a better mom, friend, and partner, and human, sober.

Whitney: Okay. Damn it.

Amy: I know. I have better moods, bal- more balanced moods, cuz I would get like up and down, and even when I cut back, I would notice days later that my mood was off, and I was like, "Ooh," like okay, there's something, it's throwing off my brain chemicals and shit.

Whitney: Yeah, 100%.

Amy: So, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

Whitney: Well, and I don't know if this ever happened to you, but like and they say it's it's at like 3:00 a.m. Your liver is is active at 3:00 a.m., so if you were drinking, you wake up at 3:00 a.m. Because your liver is working on stuff. And when I wake up at 3:00 a.m., I feel

Amy: Oh. Oh shit.

Whitney: sad, or like depressed or anxious. It's not like I wake up and go, "Huh, feel so you know, I'm going to go back to bed now." It's like, it's definitely a negative feeling, and I think it has to do with the sugar and the alcohol and all that, it's like a drop. But, yeah. So that

Amy: It absolutely does. It's bad, it's science.

Whitney: No.

Amy: Yeah, so it really, really makes a difference. They say even it makes a difference in your hormones and things like that, so.

Whitney: Well, look, and I have a dog that has bone cancer right now, and you know, so I've been doing research on that and talking with different people, and and I didn't realize that sugar is what feeds those cells, those cancer cells.

Amy: Holy shit.

Whitney: Wine, full of sugar. Full of sugar. So.

Amy: Yeah. And I mean there's NA alternatives now, you know. They're not the same, you're not going to feel the same.

Whitney: Yeah, talk to us about that, because I know for your 50th you had like nice bottles of like

Amy: Ritual Zero Proof.

Whitney: rum and gin and all that, that weren't really rum and gin. I didn't taste it. Sorry. I went for the real stuff.

Amy: I know, they're not It's not the same, but it's something to kind of placebo in there. So if I'm at a restaurant, I order my I order club soda with lime in a wine glass. That is my key. Like, I have to do it in the right style of glass.

Whitney: Yeah, you're tricking your brain into feeling like, no, you're still being festive and and having a a fun drink.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, and I feel like I'm like with everyone.

Whitney: In community. Yeah.

Amy: I don't feel odd, and so I think that that's a trick for it, too. And so that's a key, having those NA spirits around, but still they're full of sugar. Watch out, cuz you can get a hangover for sure.

Whitney: Right. No, I like the idea, I was actually thinking about this for some reason. I guess cuz we I knew we were going to be talking about this, but I thought, "Oh, you know, at night, instead of grabbing a glass of wine when I sit down, I could grab the same glass, but put club soda and a little cranberry, and make it fun and festive, make me feel like I'm having a White Claw or something." But it's it's not any of that.

Amy: Absolutely. Yeah, there's and there's lots of alternatives now, too. There's things with mushrooms, or things with CBD or

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, have you tried those?

Amy: There's THC, too, so watch out for those. But a little, a little, but I don't keep those around cuz Justin's not that's not something he wants to see.

Whitney: Right, you don't want anything mind-altering.

Amy: Right, and so that's my experiment, cuz sometimes I want a state change, I want like something mind-altering, so. One of my neighbors gave me one the other night called BRĒZ, and she was like, "Oh, it's like mushrooms and something else." And she showed it to me, and it was like 2.5 mg of THC, and I was like, "I don't know if I can do this." So I drank a little, and I felt fine.

Whitney: Yeah. Oh.

Amy: So I tried it, so. But I'm

Whitney: I wish I I I would like to try more, but I get scared. Plus, you know, I don't want things showing up in my blood or like, I don't

Amy: Why? Are you getting drug tested?

Whitney: No, but what if I get pulled over or something? I don't know, that's how my brain works. I'm like, I don't want THC in my system.

Amy: True, true.

Whitney: I don't know. When we um a group of us went to Should I say this? Yeah, I'm going to say it. I went on a trip

Amy: Ooh. Now I'm It's just us, it's just us.

Whitney: I went on a trip recently and had the opportunity to do chocolate mushrooms. Like in a chocolate bar.

Amy: Love those.

Whitney: And it was super fun.

Amy: It's so fun.

Whitney: And I didn't feel bad the next day.

Amy: I'd do that, I'd do that. I haven't in a long time.

Whitney: I think it's just you I I'm fearful

Amy: You didn't feel bad the next day? No, no, no, you don't feel bad.

Whitney: No. Do you normally? No, I didn't feel bad.

Amy: No. Mm-mm.

Whitney: But, it's so fun. but it's just scary, like you know.

Amy: Those are pretty easy to ease into.

Whitney: It's funny, alcohol is just as bad, if not worse, and yet, it's legal, so. And I I don't know about

Amy: Alcohol is much worse. No, mushrooms are not bad.

Whitney: Yeah. Right, but why aren't they legal? They are in some states.

Amy: That's a conspiracy. So no, we'll get into that later.

Whitney: It's I don't know, but yeah, I mean I would be interested in trying other alternatives that aren't so unhealthy for you.

Amy: Yeah. Well, one day I did get a mocktail that was made with a THC beverage when I was at lunch with a friend for her birthday. She was like, "Let's get one and split it." Cuz it said it had 5 mg, which for me,

Whitney: Which is basically a gummy. Yeah.

Amy: off the fucking charts. And I like, I weed hit I don't

Whitney: Well, I go to sleep.

Amy: No, I don't. I my brain races. I've I've looked it up, I have something going on that makes me anxious.

Whitney: Oh. Oh, yes. Paranoid.

Amy: Yeah, yeah, it's awful. And so, which I could have used that information in college, but anyway.

Whitney: I could have used a lot of information in college.

Amy: So she was she was fine with this beverage and had a great day and all this. I was high for the rest of the day and miserable. And so yeah, I I could barely drive home, I was like miserable.

Whitney: Oh, no. That's scary, and that's just a drink, one drink that you split.

Amy: It really is. Yep.

Whitney: So if you are, that's a good little tip for people, if you are going to try one of those types of drinks, look and see. It's not like a bottle of wine where it's all kind of the same, you need to look on the back and see what's actually in it, cuz some are

Amy: Yeah, and this was at a restaurant downtown.

Whitney: Yeah, that's crazy.

Amy: It was crazy, crazy. Oh, my gosh. But so just be careful, but whatever. So I'm pretty much clean from everything, but I'm

Whitney: Especially now that you're not vaping.

Amy: If someone if Justin were right, right. I was, that was fun for a while, cuz I felt like a little high.

Whitney: That is so weird. I know, I'm just so shocked. It's so funny.

Amy: I know. I know, but it's gone now. But like, I I don't want to do anything around Justin either, cuz like I don't want him to think that I need something to have a good time with him.

Whitney: Well, that's the that's really the the the the root of this for me, it's like, why A lot of it is habit. Like when I sit down, well first of all, when I sit down with certain people,

Amy: I need a fucking drink.

Whitney: it's like, we're Well, not I need one, it's like, "All right, let's have some fun." Yeah, and then and then other people, "I need one."

Amy: "Let's have a good" Yeah.

Whitney: And then just at the end of the day, and it'll sometimes be I won't be I won't sit down until 10:00 p.m., but it's just an instinct of like, "Oh, I haven't had a glass of wine. I need to have my glass of wine."

Amy: Oh oh oh, I was going to tell you, at night have a room temperature glass

Whitney: of water?

Amy: of tart cherry juice, it produces melatonin, yeah.

Whitney: Oh, that's right. You you said something about that.

Amy: You like that one, yeah.

Whitney: I like the I like the words tart cherry.

Amy: Listen to this crazy shit.

Whitney: What?

Amy: My friend, you know her, I don't whatever, who cares. She shouldn't care.

Whitney: No, we're not going to say names.

Amy: She shouldn't care. Well, anyway, we had a pattern of drinking together, going back to when we started drinking, right? So that's pretty intense, drinking, smoking, the whole nine.

Whitney: Right. Yeah.

Amy: And I mean, we blacked out too many times to count together. Anyway, so she Sorry, maybe we shouldn't say names. Anyway, so I do this sober experiment, and she calls me the other day and she's like, "Oh, hey, like, today's my one year sober."

Whitney: Huh.

Amy: And I was like, "Oh, my god." Like, I didn't even really realize. I did kind of, I knew she had cut back on drinking and stuff, but she stopped.

Whitney: Oh, wow.

Amy: And her life is so much better. And I was like, "Oh!"

Whitney: People keep telling us that, but I just I need a little more proof.

Whitney: I know, life would be better. Why is it so hard to start? Well, I'll tell you, like I was like, "Oh, well, I'll start today." And and then I'm like, "Oh, but I'm going to Guatemala for my cousin's wedding, and oh, I'm going to Wurstfest this weekend, and oh, I'm" And it's just one thing after another. It's never going to stop.

Amy: It's never going to stop.

Amy: No. And so you get into these situations, and then you just take it moment by moment. If you take the whole trip or the whole week,

Whitney: Right, well, it's just like any I mean, addiction.

Amy: it's too much. So you just think, "In this moment, do I have to have it right now? What if I don't right this second?" And then you make it through that, and you go, "Well, I'm actually at a point now where it's kind of late, I'd rather just sleep well." And then you reach a point where you've made it through the day, night, whatever.

Whitney: Yeah. No, it is true, there are mo- like at 5:00, it's like my body knows it's 5:00 and it's like, "Okay." And so, craving will come up, but if I'm busy or don't, it it goes away. It does It's not with me all, you know.

Amy: It does go away. That's what I had to do with had to do with vaping, too, it's just breaking those little like Pavlovian responses that we've got. And so it but it is hard, but I think just look at it like, "Okay, what's life like if I do this?" And it's uncomfortable at parties and stuff, cuz I am not the best You'd think I am, but I'm not the best at small talk and socializing.

Whitney: You're more introverted. Yeah.

Amy: I need breaks, I have to I have some introvert tendencies. I just want to get out of the situation or be just with my friends. And so it for me was truly a social lubricant, and so that is a stretch for me, and I don't love that part. I wish that I could just knock back a couple drinks and loosen up.

Whitney: Well, I think also when you're sober, and everyone else starts getting tipsier and tipsier and tipsier, you just want to get the hell out of there, because everybody's an idiot.

Amy: You either want to drink or you're just like, "Oh my god, she's repeating herself," you know, and slurring. And people don't realize they are. It's not a great look, either. You start to go like,

Whitney: Yeah. No.

Amy: "I don't really want to look like that."

Whitney: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Amy: You know? Yeah. So here I found a list that I made at maybe two and a half years or something, and or, and I was like, "Oh," so I was just going to list off some things that I had felt. And then I also have some benefits that you feel like at different markers when you're sober, which is kind of appealing, right?

Whitney: Okay, hit me up.

Amy: So okay, so I mentioned my moods have gotten more balanced, like I am not as up and down, which is really nice. And so, for everybody. For all involved. Because you mentioned like testosterone was making you moody, but are you sure it's testosterone? Like did you have drinks? Like where could it be a combo?

Whitney: But I've been having drinks for 25, 30 years, that that you know, I'm always been super happy and fun. But testosterone came in.

Amy: All right. Well, jet lag was easier to manage when I was on a long trip,

Whitney: Oh, sure.

Amy: way better. And so that's a nice one. Stress is easier to manage, I don't get as like, frazzled. My inner talk, my inner dialogue,

Whitney: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Amy: it's not the greatest anyway, because I'm a ruminator. I'm a recovering ruminator, which is why I do affirmations, and so my inner voices are better. I am Oh, here I wrote, "I'm able to speak up better, and like not doubt myself." That's good. "I'm more in touch with my desires." So sexually, I realized that I was I had pre- sex Before I had sex, I would usually have drink.

Whitney: Oh, right. I would pre-party

Amy: Yeah, pre-game.

Whitney: before sex. It was pre-game, pre-gaming.

Amy: Pre-gaming sex. And so I feel like I'm more in touch with my desires and able to Like sex has gotten better.

Whitney: Well, that makes sense, because alcohol is numbing. Like I remember my brother-in-law came to New York to visit us, and he started the night off with, "I'll have a Jack and Coke, and a shot of Jack." Like it was like, that was his drink. So by the end of the night, wasted, and he was trying to smoke a cigarette, and it fell on his hand, he didn't feel it. I had to say, "You're burning!" It was terrible.

Amy: Shit-faced. Oh, my gosh, yikes. He's still drinking?

Whitney: Well, this was when he was in college. No, as a matter of fact, totally sober. A vegan, you'd really like him. But very regimented, like he wakes up at 4:30 every day, goes and works out, he's got he's got some OCD stuff. But

Amy: Okay, calm down. Calm down.

Whitney: but yes, completely sober.

Amy: Take it down a notch.

Whitney: Yeah, it's a little But that's But you really do, like so

Amy: so the first play party that we went to, I was like felt like I was like getting doing the work.

Whitney: Nobody knows what a play party is, you're going to have to tell.

Amy: It's the ones I go to are run by a professional dominatrix, and so you're in a situation where you're exploring sexually. I go with I've been with my partner, and so you're able to figure out what you really desire, and like I

Whitney: Mhm. And there's no alcohol allowed, right? I remember you telling me, yeah.

Amy: No nothing, it's sober. And that is very uncomfortable, very uncomfortable for me.

Whitney: That's hard.

Amy: Yeah, especially when you're exploring sexual avenues.

Whitney: Oh, my god.

Amy: Yeah, because I am very shy about that kind of stuff. I'm not like forward, I'm not the person who's making the first move like ever. And so

Whitney: Yeah. Same with me.

Amy: yeah, so I needed alcohol to even get looser in that environment. So it's made me able to understand more of what I actually desire, and what the and and really like, in that situation, I didn't even understand that like, a foot massage or a head massage was something that was acceptable to like desire for your body to feel good.

Whitney: Sexual. Yeah.

Amy: It's made me, it's opened my eyes completely. And so that's huge. And like, I trust myself more, and I'm I'm able

Whitney: Right. Well, you're clear-headed.

Amy: Yeah, yeah.

Whitney: You're clear-headed, so everything makes more sense. You know, and then sleep, I'm sure, was better, which also helps with clarity.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, so those are big facets of your life that I that we that we just give away to alcohol. And so I don't like that.

Whitney: I know, I don't like it, but I like it.

Amy: And so that That's the hard part.

Whitney: You're right. That's well said, well said.

Amy: So overall, I am happier than ever, which I think yes, it's product of age, and and my relationships and the self-work I've done, but it's also like I think being sober is a huge factor, so.

Whitney: I honestly think the way it's going to have to work for me is I'm going to have to get my little group to do it, or at least my boyfriend and I to do it.

Amy: I'm here for you.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, I know. But we don't hang out all the time, you know, it's like you need a couple of people,

Amy: No, we don't.

Whitney: or like your partner.

Amy: A partner's a big one.

Whitney: If Ryan will do it with me.

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: And and he did take a break for about a year, and I still drank a little bit, but not nearly what I was, cuz you're just like, "Oh,

Amy: I remember. Right.

Whitney: we're not going to do that." I don't know about other people, but I I know for me, like even was it yesterday or the day before, I went to lunch with a friend and the person comes over and they're like, "Would you like something to drink?" And I'm like waiting to see, is she going to And she ordered water, so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to have water, too." But if she'd have ordered a beer, then I would have said, "Yeah, I'll have a beer." I'm I'm kind of like, do whatever the group's doing.

Amy: Right. Nice. Maybe you need to be the trendsetter. Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: I think maybe.

Amy: And I will say, I gained weight during this time. I did gain weight, I did replace it with food. Justin likes food,

Whitney: Really?

Amy: and so I did gain weight, which I've lost now, but I mean I think that I was coping too, with his sobriety journey, and I think I was like doing it, but it was So I I did gain weight, but I felt good about myself. So, now I've lost it. I don't know, it's a little complicated, but still. So, and I do think it helped me with my resilience. So, yeah. I also wrote, "Length of recovery from depressive episode much reduced." Like if I'm feeling bad about something, I think I I think I bounce back a lot quicker. Yeah.

Whitney: Bounced back faster. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: And if you are are saturating that with some alcohol, it's like, uh, you know. I wake up feeling good, mostly. So, that's nice. It does, like I wrote down about sugar. Like sugar, you know, you can feel that the next day, and it's alcohol.

Whitney: Well, and I'm pretty good about not having sugar in my regular diet, but you don't think about, you know, a bottle of wine.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: Having sugar, so Look, everybody knows that not drinking is definitely better than drinking. I mean, we're not sharing anything new here.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Whitney: I guess for me, I'm just trying to get to just jump in like, you know. And so when we when I hear the things that you're saying, and how to cope with it, like having the the wine glass with, you know, club soda in it or whatever, those are the little tricks that are going to help get you jumped in. And then, even I I don't know that I could wait two years to get some you know, obvious positive feedback.

Amy: That's Huberman, though. Don't think about that.

Whitney: But I do think you, I mean, I know just from not drinking during the week or whatever, I I am sleeping better, I do have better energy, and my skin is better. I know when Ryan stopped drinking for that year, what he looked like right when he started the sober

Amy: Really?

Whitney: journey, he looked younger, more rested, like just he looked younger. You know.

Amy: I'm going to look younger, rested.

Whitney: Like, like even for you know, two months later, people would be like, "What are you doing? You look so good." And then you'd be like, "Was it Did I really look that bad?" Like, it's not like I was

Amy: Really?

Whitney: cutting out heroin, you know.

Amy: I mean, I know some people who look pretty bad from drinking. Men in their 50s got to watch out.

Whitney: Yeah. You kind of start to look bloated.

Amy: Oh, for sure.

Whitney: I I think of like a bloated toad. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. Like a bulbous nose.

Whitney: Not good. But I do think for you and and look, it's also genetics, like you have good genetics and then you also take care of your skin and do a lot for it. Somebody somebody just said recently to me cuz they were like, "Oh, really, you're going to you know," I can't remember how she phrased it, but she was like, "You do all this stuff to make yourself look good, but you're still drinking." And I made the joke of like, "Yeah, can you imagine what I'd look like if I you know, didn't do all those supplements, like you know?" But you I don't necessarily know that I I didn't notice you looking better, necessarily. I feel like your skin has always looked good and

Amy: Oh, thanks.

Whitney: your eyes are always bright.

Amy: I don't know, I look back on pictures and I, well, I don't know. I'm kind of in between, like there As long as I'm taking care of myself I look all right, but yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. But a lot of it's fake, I'm faking it.

Amy: Yeah, and I've definitely had some puffy.

Whitney: Like my skin feels super dry, my eyes are tired, you know. And I'm just slapping shit on there like spackle to hide it. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Amy: Well, I think I think if you don't approach it as like this, "I have to do this for 90 days or 2 years," or whatever it is,

Whitney: Yeah, just for today, it's that's

Amy: or just for like, this one drink. Let me skip this one drink, and see how I feel. Like just take it way back, and then just just be like, "Oh, you know what, I'm fine, and maybe I don't want the next one after all." And then you just, I think you just take it just moment by moment, because it does pass quickly. Like, I'll have the desire and then I'll be like, "I'll just give myself five minutes."

Whitney: Even while we've been, I mean, like there've been moments when you and I are talking, yeah,

Amy: You want to drink right now?

Whitney: "Let's have a drink. Let's celebrate with a drink."

Amy: Shit-faced.

Whitney: But I mean, you you have mentioned a couple of times like, "Oh, I don't know. I think I might want to do it. I think I might want to have a drink." And I'm like, "No, don't do it. Like you've gone so long."

Amy: But I might, and it wouldn't

Whitney: And you might, and it wouldn't ruin what you've accomplished. It's different than addiction. We're not talking about

Amy: No. No.

Whitney: We're talking about the regular people out there that I mean, I do I will say, I think most people in just society have an issue with alcohol, because we do it so much.

Amy: I think I did. Yep.

Whitney: I do, for sure. But I'm I'm not nothing is destroying lives, or I'm not you know, it's it's a different than an addiction.

Amy: Yeah, yeah, this is mine's more about optimization and and and just recognizing like, maybe this isn't serving me the way that I want, you know. And so like

Whitney: We're being served, but it's not serving us.

Amy: You got served.

Whitney: You got served.

Amy: So that I think that there's something more to it, but I think like, it's very subjective if you have a problem with alcohol. Someone could easily look at me and be like, "Oh, you had a problem," you know, but who knows, right? I and I have looked at people

Whitney: I I

Amy: that I've had relationships with, and been like, they have a problem, but they wouldn't say they have a problem. So who knows? It's a scale, it's a spectrum.

Whitney: The fact that I know The fact that I know that it would be better for me to stop, and I'm not stopping, that to me is a problem. Like, I know that it's not good for me and I'm still going to do it.

Amy: I smoked till my face broke out, and so you know what? We just

Whitney: Yeah. I mean, no judgment, I'm just saying.

Amy: No.

Whitney: And I'm not judging myself either, I'm just I'm just saying

Amy: Don't.

Whitney: would never. And not until 3:00 a.m. But I mean I I I've actually just forgot what I was going to say.

Amy: Oh, that's all right. Well, let's get into the changes that you can see over continued non-alcohol use. Continued sobriety, so let's see. If you cut it out, here is a timeline of some sobriety health benefits. And I can put the link in the show notes, too. So if I remember, I don't know, whatever. We don't we don't exactly have a big crew of people cracking the whip on us here, so whatever.

Whitney: I'll remind you.

Amy: Okay. So initially, if you're talking 0 to 7 days, right? In the first 24 hours, they say alcohol leaves your bloodstream. I think it's still cranking around in there for 2 years, cuz it crosses the blood-brain barrier, but still. You're going to reduce like, alcohol-related dehydration because it's a diuretic. You're going to feel better, you'll get rid of some anxiety, some tremors, sweating, headache, nausea.

Whitney: You won't make that phone call.

Amy: Yeah, you won't drunk dial. Brain function will begin to improve and any impairments will start to reverse, right? And then within 72 hours, the withdrawal symptoms are gone. So that's nice, right?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: And we like that. Sleep still may be disrupted, though. So you're still not sleeping great at 72 hours. Now, in the first week, those will start to subside, and you'll improve your sleep quality. Yay, we love that. But you still may experience some irregular sleep patterns, but that's where these moods and brain chemicals can still be kind of jacked up. But, you're going to improve your hydration, improve your skin, hair, and you're generally going to feel better. So yay, right? So weeks 1 through 4, so in your first like week out to month.

Whitney: Month.

Amy: Better sleep quality, less fragmentation, better REM sleep and restorative sleep, which we know it it really takes all that.

Whitney: Yeah, that's number one on longevity.

Amy: Big time. And I'm such a sleep nerd that I don't like fucking with my sleep, so that's like it It really isn't worth it to me, and I would smoke so much when I did drink, too. I I did cut that out, though. I quit, but I still would wake up and I would wake up the next night and I wouldn't be able to sleep. It was like alcohol made me hyper in some way where I couldn't sleep the next day, and I was like, "Uh, I hated I hated that feeling." So it's going to get better. Interference with REM is going to decline, and then, again, improved hydration, your body's holding on to more water, so that's improving everything, we like that. Week two, gut and digestive improvements, because alcohol irritates the stomach lining and causes bloating and gassiness, so you can If you suffer from heartburn and digestion issues, those will start to dissipate. Calorie reduction becomes meaningful if you're drinking regularly, now omitted many empty calories. Minor weight loss. I mean, I don't

Whitney: I uh yeah.

Amy: I don't see that one.

Whitney: I don't know. Yeah, I've never I not that I've quit for a year or anything, but I've never noticed a fluctuation either way.

Amy: Mm-mm, me either. When I was pregnant I was like, "Ooh, I'm going to cut out alcohol now and look so good." And

Whitney: But you're pregnant!

Amy: I didn't.

Whitney: I'm going to look so good while I'm eight, nine months pregnant cuz I'm not drinking.

Amy: I had this girl the other day say to me, "Man, if I could cut out alcohol like you do, I'd be so cut and fit." And I was like,

Whitney: And you're like, "Uh"

Amy: Looked down at my body, I'm like, "Yeah, it's not a magic, you know. It's not It's"

Whitney: "Um."

Amy: No, it's not.

Whitney: You still have to work at all that other stuff.

Amy: Okay, now you're going to like this one. Blood pressure begins to

Whitney: Drop.

Amy: decrease.

Whitney: Ooh. Yeah, but you know my mom didn't drink for years and years and years and she still had high blood pressure.

Amy: It's still genetic, so.

Whitney: And I feel like yeah, I'm not going to give you that one, okay?

Amy: You don't have to.

Whitney: But that is a good reason. I mean look, I have high blood pressure.

Amy: Improved body composition may be noticeable, skin and hair is still improving, so less inflammation, improved sleep, which is going to make you look better and happier, probably do something about the bags under your eyes. You don't have any bags. Liver function begins to show measurable improvement in week four. So a month in, you are healing your liver.

Whitney: Everything.

Amy: And I was told by my my blood doctor that my liver looked like I was 16 years old. I'm like, "Wow,

Whitney: Oh, wow.

Amy: miracles can occur." Energy levels are going to be higher. Mood and cognitive clarity better. So did you not re- remember my name, did you not

Whitney: Yeah, maybe that's really the issue. I'm taking all these supplements and I just need to stop drinking, and then

Amy: It might be.

Whitney: It's not like I'm getting sloshed every night though. I mean, but still, it's a glass of wine or two.

Amy: No, but it's that's still It doesn't It's not good, right?

Whitney: It's not good.

Amy: So maybe that would be a good experiment for you to do, and see if your brain cognition improves.

Whitney: Yeah. Right around the holidays.

Amy: All right. 2 to 4 months, so this is if you stick with your Dry January or whatever. Significant liver recovery, for people without irreversible damage, you can cross over.

Whitney: Okay. Yeah.

Amy: So improvement in digestion, reduced bloat bloating, better nutrient processing, I like that. Cardiovascular improvements continue, more stable blood pressure, better cholesterol and triglyceride profiles. I mean it affects everything, it's crazy.

Whitney: Yeah. I I read something, it said every alcohol impacts every cell in your body.

Amy: It does, cuz it crosses the blood-brain barrier. The BBB.

Whitney: Blood-brain. Yeah.

Amy: Better memory, focus, less brain fog. Noticeable skin health, less redness, puffiness, boy, people need that, right?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: Body composition improves, we know. Improved immune system.

Whitney: Oh, you're not getting sick.

Amy: Yep. 6 months to 1 year, many people achieve a new normal, right? You're more used to social situations, too, right? And breaking some old patterns, which is wild.

Whitney: Right. Right.

Amy: Yes. You know, it's trendy now, too, it's more accepted.

Whitney: I think here in Austin there's an actual sober bar.

Amy: Sans Bar.

Whitney: Sans Bar.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, and actually Have y'all been? Yes, in fact we've done a an event where he came and did drinks, yeah.

Whitney: Oh, that's awesome.

Amy: Yeah, he was he's awesome, and can't think of his name off the top of my head. That's all right.

Whitney: It doesn't cure all brain fog, just some of it.

Amy: A little bit, yeah. Anyway, but anyway, there are, and someone just told me that there's a couple in Washington, D.C. Like, they're around. And it's just more acceptable. Like I went to eat at Siena, Siena, which is down the road, right? So it's very Italian, very wine, whatever.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah.

Amy: And I was at a happy hour and I was like, "What NA options do you have?" And the guy the server was so rude to me, and he was like, "Oh, we don't do that here. We have Coca-Cola or something." And I was just like, "Get with the program, y'all are like"

Whitney: It's so true. The younger generation, they're not drinking like like we did.

Amy: No, and give us options. Like I don't know, I just felt like they were really out of touch.

Whitney: No need to be rude, Siena.

Amy: I know, it was it was gross, actually. And and I was just, I don't know, I was just put off. Like, I feel like that's a norm now, and like when I went to Uchiba the other day, they were like, "Oh, we've got Ritual Zero Proof, we can make you whatever you want." I I was somewhere in Vegas, and they had like some amazing She made me an amazing like tequila old-fashioned, but with fake tequila, and I was like, "Fuck yeah." Badass ice cube, all that.

Whitney: Oh, nice.

Amy: It was still $25 or whatever, and I was like, "Ah, fuck you."

Whitney: Yeah, cuz how much is that, like the the Ritual bottle? The same or more?

Amy: It's about the same. I want to say it's like 25 bucks, 28, something like that. So I think we all did a shot at your birthday from Ritual, yeah. We did, we did. Yep, we did. I mean it's not as satisfying, but it's fun.

Whitney: Here's the thing though, some of it is just ritual.

Amy: Yep. Oh, I get it now.

Whitney: I I like that they have the name of that, right? But that's true, you you know, the ritual of holding the glass, the ritual of having something fizzy at a certain time of day, the ritual of a fun glass with the, you know, umbrella in it or whatever,

Amy: Like, you know. Yeah.

Whitney: or taking a shot even though And they have like adaptogens, they're doing probiotics, I mean, there's so many. H-E-B has a huge section. Yeah. I don't understand adaptogens.

Amy: We should do an episode on adaptogens, cuz I don't either.

Whitney: Okay. Okay, let's let's add that to the list.

Amy: Okay. So if you want, email us if there's something you want to hear, too, like anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail. Cuz somebody's already emailed.

Whitney: I know. Shout out to Beth.

Amy: Beth.

Whitney: You hold a special place in our hearts.

Amy: Okay, so new normal, yeah, like less cravings. I think you're just understanding too, more that you can function without it, and figure out other ways of being, which is really cool. After a year, we've got a meaningful reduction in long-term disease risk. We're talking cardiovascular, some cancers, liver disease. I mean, wow, right?

Whitney: Is this all on um based on moderate drinking, or do you know?

Amy: Great question. I don't know, I think this is just I don't know, this is cutting alcohol out. I'm going to guess from a moderate drinker.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah, I did I don't know, it's not from like an alcoholic, but you are going to see

Whitney: Well, I think you see more, yeah.

Amy: serious improvements, yeah. Your life expectancy is may increase compared with continued heavy drinking.

Whitney: Sure. Well, again, none of this is brain surgery.

Amy: That was a little obvious. No, but relationships, finances, mental health often improved, less alcohol-related conflict. I mean, really, in my relationship, I when in my last marriage, alcohol was a factor in our fights almost every single time.

Whitney: Oh, of course.

Amy: Every single time.

Whitney: You don't have your filter, and you're saying stuff that later you regret.

Amy: Oh, my gosh.

Whitney: Or, you don't remember.

Amy: Oh, I just watched Love Is Blind, the latest season. It's a train wreck. But I mean, the fights are always alcohol-related, and I'm like, "Oh, my god."

Whitney: Oh yeah, I haven't seen it. Yeah. And the choices, the choices that are made. I mean look, you never wake up after not drinking and go, "Why did I say that last night?"

Amy: Yep. Well, I I I still say stupid things, but they're a lot less.

Whitney: Oh you do? I only say it on alcohol, otherwise I'm super smart.

Amy: You lucky duck. Oh, man.

Whitney: But yeah, that makes total sense. You're not thinking straight when you're drinking, and so you make

Amy: Oh, my god. You know what, if you want to really have a sober moment, just watch that, watch some of those episodes, cuz you're like, "Oh, my god."

Whitney: bad decisions. Love Is Blind. Well, even I was on a trip recently, and you know, we we all get along so well, but there was a moment where we got into a little bit of a tiff, and the next day we were like, "That was all alcohol." That was all alcohol-related.

Amy: It is.

Whitney: It is.

Amy: I mean.

Whitney: But then sometime, but then even though you recognize that, the damage is done. I mean the words were said, and you have to really work to like, let it go and be like, "Okay, that was in a moment," and you know.

Amy: Mm-hmm. The last time I got drunk, I was at a friend's 10-year wedding vow renewal, the the woman that married us, actually. And it was an amazing, fun party, and all this, but I got drunk.

Whitney: Oh. Oh, okay. Right.

Amy: And I pushed Justin in the face, like I got mad at him about I don't even know what. He had to like, kind of like, he was like, "Bring it down."

Whitney: Oh. Yeah.

Amy: He was pissed at me, because he was sober and he had to see me like that. I'm still embarrassed to this day, I still apologize.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, I I did that to a friend back in the day in Vegas. She was trying to get me to leave, and I pushed her. "I'm not leaving." And the next day, I'm like, "What the actual fuck?"

Amy: Right. Right. All right. So anyway, and then we just keep drinking and think we're going to do better next time, right? But I I didn't this time, I actually stopped. And so I don't want to do that again, like that's not good.

Whitney: I know. Well, you want to be yeah, you don't want to treat the people you love like that. That's not really you.

Amy: No. No. So you're going to like, when you get that far out, right? We're seeing all those benefits that I mentioned, plus just new healthy routines, and you're able to get up in the morning, you're able to handle life better, which I got to say, I love that. I fucking love that. And and I don't know, I just feel So here's here's one of the payoffs that I'm going to let you in on. Can't wait. I feel fucking high all the time. I feel

Whitney: In life, yeah.

Amy: like I am vibing

Whitney: So true, so true. Not to get all Well, we get woo-woo, but yeah.

Amy: like I think maybe part of me drinking is to bring myself down and more grounded or something, because I almost feel like I need that to to bring me to a level where I'm like,

Whitney: Not feeling Yeah, I know what you're saying.

Amy: Yeah, cuz I am almost like like high. Like, I feel really good.

Whitney: And when did that start? Do you remember?

Amy: I I I'm not sure,

Whitney: But almost to the point where you're like, "I need somebody to bring me down."

Amy: but I started to

Whitney: You have to do your practices to kind of ground you back into.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and even then, I'm still flying a little bit, and it's weird. Like, it's

Whitney: Yeah. It is weird.

Amy: Cuz that's what we want, you want to feel like so good, and sometimes I'm like, "I'm feeling so good, I feel like I should have a drink to bring me back down." And I wonder if that's part of why I drank. Like I think maybe our natural state is almost unbearable.

Whitney: Well, I don't think that everyone's I think that on a spiritual level, everyone's state could be that, but I don't think everybody experiences it to the level that you're describing right now.

Amy: Like, I feel really good.

Whitney: That's awesome.

Amy: I had a friend remark on that, her name is Taylor Ellison, and she's a public figure, she's such a high-vibey. Like, and she's just a bright light, I just love being around her, and she doesn't drink. And I She hasn't for years, and so I remember years ago, I asked her if she did mushrooms or something like that,

Whitney: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: any psychedelics. She goes, "Oh, my god, if I did that, I might just never come back." And I was like, "Huh," and cuz she was like, "I'm already up here." And I was thinking, "Are you?" And I think I was having a drink at the time.

Whitney: Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: And so now I think I get what she's saying. Like you really like, if you do the work and you don't drink, you can get to this vibey state where you're like, "Whoa, I'm feeling really good." And so it's a weird It's weird.

Whitney: Yeah. No, I agree with that, I do think it's a vibration thing. I mean, alcohol is a downer, even though it gives us energy, the two of us,

Amy: It is, yes.

Whitney: it is a downer. It's weird, yeah.

Amy: It does, that's And it's like a false energy. Yeah.

Whitney: And you feel like, "Oh, I'm so much more creative." But it's not It's false.

Amy: It's fake. It's lying to you. Alcohol is actually a depressant on both the nervous system and your subtle energy body, and it can restore vitality in natural frequency. So let's talk about some of the spiritual stuff. So you get more clarity and more presence within the first few weeks, right? Reconnecting to self without the numbing fog of alcohol, your inner voice becomes audible again, right? You can tune into that, and it's just a fact, you really do. You can get more into You're numbing your intuition.

Whitney: Mhm, mhm. Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: I think that's why, sexually too, I felt out of touch with myself, because I just I just think I feel embarrassed too in sexual situations, or have in the past, and it's hard for me to just like be exposed and vulnerable. Like I wanted to calm that down. So that's interesting. So people can remember who you really are and really get in touch with yourself and feel more comfortable there. You have a heightened awareness and you feel your emotions again, both all of them. All of them, right? The bad with the good.

Whitney: Right. Yeah. And that's and that's the hard part, that's where addiction kind of comes in or or the the issue is, you really don't want to feel all the feelings, you don't want to feel uncomfortable when you walk in the room, "So let me have a drink before I go." Or especially after my husband died, the drinking was not you know, not good.

Amy: I would want to just get shit-faced, for sure.

Whitney: Yeah, it wasn't good. For sure. And then my mom was living with me, so we were both just had a partner in crime.

Amy: Yeah, you needed it at that time.

Whitney: But you're you don't Yeah, you're numbing, you don't want to feel everything. But the only way to get those feelings out of your system is to feel them and then release them. Really, I was just holding on to everything until I decided to deal with it.

Amy: Yeah, you were, and those are all part of our human experience, and I think there's like an acceptance of like, I'm not going to feel great all the time, I'm going to have highs and lows. And sort of, they're stepping out outside of yourself and like, that's your soul, right? And then you have this human side that's going to feel all the emotions, and just like that's part of it. It's not all roses.

Whitney: Life isn't easy.

Amy: You said that in your TED Talk, and it's beautiful, like so understanding that it's all part of it. And so then you're able to just be like, "Ugh, okay. This is part of my human experience, and it's going to suck sometimes and I'm going to cry." So that's just That's okay, like we wouldn't tell children to go have a drink, you know? And so like

Whitney: No, that's true, you wouldn't.

Amy: Yeah, knock back those beers.

Whitney: Well, and especially like for my my kids, like seeing little kids and how they are feeling in their high vibration and they're doing all these things, and then life comes in and starts trying to, you know, they they they feel start to feel bad about themselves, they start to get self-conscious and all those things. And I could see my own kids like, "Don't lose that, don't lose that, don't don't go drink,

Amy: Damp it down.

Whitney: because then you're using a coping skill that's not actually a good coping skill." But then they're seeing a mom who was having drinks and, you know, so I mean And then I just go, "Oh, well, it's part of the high school.

Amy: That's what we do. We're just busy and we just shrug it off cuz it's part of our culture.

Whitney: Everybody drinks, everybody does it." Yeah, but it's just Yeah.

Amy: And so that's that's really what I tried to get aware of with having teenagers, and I was like, and now I have one that's completely sober, and I'm like, "Holy shit."

Whitney: That's awesome. Yeah.

Amy: If I had done that at 19, wow. Right? And so I mean, that's that blows my socks off. And so my other one, at least I'm modeling to her like life is doable without it. And so I'm not trying to act superior or anything, it's just for me, I think I just got that awareness and I was like, "What am I doing?" You know? So anyway, also, this is like what Amanda was talking about, synchronicities and intuition, right? Many sober individuals notice meaningful coincidences and a clearer, intuitive sense early on. So your nervous system's sensitivity and alignment just gets sharper, and that's really I think really cool, and for me, I just want to try it and see what happens. And so is that 20 minutes of uncomfortableness, you know, can I bear it? And like, yeah, you go, "Yeah, it's"

Whitney: Mhm. Well, it's funny too cuz like for women, I mean like when I was pregnant, I didn't drink.

Amy: It was fine.

Whitney: I didn't drink at all, and I was still going to the parties and all that stuff. But it was almost like, "Oh, I'm doing it for this person." But I mean, as soon as that baby was out,

Amy: No, I couldn't wait to have a drink.

Whitney: there was drinking.

Amy: I was like, "When can I have a drink?"

Whitney: But it it is doable, I mean I did it three times

Amy: Me too, I've had

Whitney: for a year pretty much.

Amy: Right, right.

Whitney: So you know, I do

Amy: It's really weird, right?

Whitney: Yeah, it's weird.

Amy: Our brain and psychology around it is just all fucked up, so.

Whitney: I'll just stop holding my stomach in when I'm out, and just pretend that I'm pregnant and

Amy: Just my food baby.

Whitney: I'll hold my back and my tummy.

Amy: There you go. You're getting into it. All right, so 1 to 3 months out, spiritually you're going to feel more authentic, and more aligned with your actions and your values, because like when we're drinking you're going to get all out of whack. Alcohol's not blurring your choices, integrity feels way more.

Whitney: You're proud of yourself.

Amy: You're proud of yourself, you have self-trust. It's just like a spiritual superpower, it's fabulous. Increased gratitude, so we feel more appreciative of the small things, quiet mornings, breathing, laughing, all those things, right?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: So you're not it it's more you're feeling stable in your goodness rather than seeking that high. And that's the quick dopamine versus, you know, the extended dopamine, and which we're just in this dopamine hit, you know, hell of our phones, and all this kind of stuff. So it's just your ability to not seek those quick highs. Re- sacralizing, getting more sacred with the ordinary, right? Food tastes better, music feels deeper. I mean I think that's just that dopamine leveling out.

Whitney: Mhm. Right.

Amy: So Justin told me that in addiction, your dopamine levels get so off that Gosh, what is it? I can't remember his analogy, damn it. I'm going to look it up and I'm going to get that from him and tell you in the next episode. But your dopamine levels get so out of whack that in major addiction to like, you know, whatever drugs, opiates or whatever, it takes 2 years for your dopamine to level out. And I think maybe that's what it was for me, it was my dopamine just is like, was so out of whack, and alcohol does it, too. And so

Whitney: Mhm. Oh, wow.

Amy: that's challenging as hell, right? And so everything is going to improve, and you feel more balanced because of your dopamine, but it's just like sticking it out until your dopamine levels out.

Whitney: Yeah. Knowing that it's just a moment, and you just got to get through that moment.

Amy: Yeah. He's He He talks about the size of like the the size of your I'm going to butcher this, but it's something about the size of your of your dopamine's regular, you know, levels versus in addiction, and it's something like, you know, the size of a football versus the size of the stadium, basically. And so, you know, you're you're way out of whack, it's just it's

Whitney: Oh, wow. Yeah.

Amy: We'll look it up for you. Anyway, that's something to think about that you can't that's We're not measuring in our blood work, right?

Whitney: Right, exactly.

Amy: Yeah. Okay, so deepened intuition, connection to God, source, spirit, it's going to be heightened, it's going to be deepened. And I have definitely experienced that, too. I feel like I am more embodied now than ever, and I'm I I don't want to go back. But then sometimes I do, sometimes I'm like, "Oh, I want to go get drunk."

Whitney: But it's like a fleeting moment of like, "Oh, wouldn't it be fun?" But then you get a handle on it.

Amy: And then it's it goes away, but. But like, I don't But then again, I'm like, "You know what, if I do go on some bender someday on a trip, or something like that with friends, okay." But I made it through my 50th birthday trip

Whitney: I know. That was impressive.

Amy: with my friends, who drank the whole time. And I was like, "I can do anything."

Whitney: That was impressive, yeah, yeah.

Amy: I couldn't believe I made it through two trips, actually, two trips and everybody drank but me. Beyond 1 year, freedom from shame. Many long-term sober individuals describe a deep sense of forgiveness, both of themself and others, and it's a spiritual liberation, you feel lighter.

Whitney: Mhm, mhm.

Amy: You're vibing higher. Sustained sobriety, your frequency and energetic field stabilizes at a higher resonance, attracting healthier relationships, opportunities, and synchronicities. So, I mean I feel like I'm still getting there with it, but I feel high right now, so. Yeah, and it's just like that's how I feel. Isn't that something? Like, you know, when you wake up and feel awful, I don't I don't have that,

Whitney: That's awesome.

Amy: most of the time. Flow state living, you move from surviving to creating. Alcohol has once fragmented your energy, and now your life force channels coherently into meaningful expression.

Whitney: Mm.

Amy: Is that a fucking desirable sentence, or what? You're embodying your truth. So you move from So overall, you move from escaping and numbing to presence and awareness. You move from feeling drained and fragmented to grounded and vibrant. You move from isolated and performative, that's the sexual part for me, performative, to authentic and intimate. And sex is better for me now than it's ever been in my entire life, but I'm also in a better relationship.

Whitney: That's what I was going to say, too, but you also have a partner that is doing the same kinds of things. Y'all are very aligned in your practices and what you believe, and that just in, you know, automatically makes intimacy more

Amy: Yeah. It really does. It really does, it just makes it more special. Yeah, you just feel more connected.

Whitney: But you're going to choose different people, too, then, because when you're on that level, you know, you you attract what you are. So, if you don't like the people that you're hanging around right now.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. And if you desire this, and you have a partner who won't get on board or isn't interested, then I think it's more than desiring sobriety, it's desiring someone with a growth mindset, someone willing to try that. And if they're not, then maybe this isn't the maybe you've outgrown this match,

Whitney: Yeah, exactly. Right, exactly.

Amy: which I've experienced, and it's very hard.

Whitney: Yeah, me too.

Amy: But then you find somebody that you do vibe with, and it's so good. Okay, you're moving in in in the purpose aspect, you're moving from like maybe external drivers, like external success, money, whatever, to something soul-led, something clear. I interviewed ages ago, Ryan, I can't think of his last name, and he is a cannabis coach. And I was almost like, "I don't want to interview you, I don't think this is a fit for me." But it was a fit. He really coaches people on how to use cannabis consciously, and so he makes them cut it out.

Whitney: Oh, I remember this interview.

Amy: Yeah, so he makes them cut it out for like three, four days, or a week, or whatever. And I was like, "What happens when they cut it out?" "They quit their jobs, they realize that they're really unhappy, and they like make all these changes." Yes!

Whitney: Yeah, they were numbing, yeah. Yeah.

Amy: Yes, which I know people that do that. So anyway, you become more in tune with like what you really want. Very interesting. And then faith, you move from disconnection to real true surrender and trust. Self-worth, you move from shame and hiding that, self-criticism, I know this is true for me too, more compassion and self-acceptance. Boy, that is so true for me. And then you move from a turbulence in your mind to a more peaceful state of stillness, gratitude, all the things. So it's just a return to alignment is kind of I want to end on the spiritual aspect.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, well, absolutely. The the bottom line is, it is a depressant, it is a numbing thing. And so when you remove it, you're no longer numb. And that that can be hard, cuz you got to feel all the feelings. But then you get to a level of complete aliveness.

Amy: Yeah. It's pretty great. Then you're like, "I want to celebrate and have a drink."

Whitney: [laughter]

Amy: It's so hard, it's so hard. I saw somebody with a martini the other day, and I was like, "God damn."

Whitney: You and I love a martini.

Amy: You and I love a martini.

Whitney: Yeah, martinis are so good. And it's also just the idea, it's just the idea. So you got to play with your mind a little bit, because that martini, it's not really about taking a sip of the martini, it's the whole vibe. So

Amy: So find other ways to celebrate.

Whitney: find a different Find the vibe else-

Amy: Yeah, I mean I don't do it, but it's it's a fun little fantasy for a moment. But then I I I really am feeling so good, so I'm not going to do it. I'm not I'm like for instance, Justin's traveling almost this whole month, and I am left to my own devices and I'm still not.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, but it's it's a it's a you're out of that It was a routine. Like for me, like I said, part of it is just, "Oh, well, I always do this. This is what I do now." And or, "This is what I do with this person now." And it's just reframing everything.

Amy: Yeah. I love a reframe.

Whitney: Love a good reframe. Queen of the reframe.

Amy: I love, love reframing. Let's reframe away.

Whitney: Going to reframe it. Just like we did with midlife.

Amy: That's right, we sure do. So are we wrapping up this episode?

Whitney: We're wrapping it up.

Amy: Man, we went long. This is a But there's a lot to cover in this, and it's really important because we want to optimize all these other things and then we're still, like you said, still drinking.

Whitney: Right. No promises, but I won't drink right now.

Amy: There you go, that's all it is. Just don't drink like right this second, you're fine. Don't think about the next however long, even a month, like don't even think about that. Just right this second, I'm fine. And really, when you when you boil it down to that,

Whitney: In this moment, not going to drink. Right. Break it down in that little minute by minute.

Amy: I'm fine right now. Like, that's the most important part.

Whitney: I think that's the perfect like first step, is yeah.

Amy: Yes! Yeah, I'm fine right right right now, I'm good. So cuz then I start thinking, "Oh, but I want it then, I want it then." Oh no, right now you're fine.

Whitney: Right now, we're both good, and you're good, too.

Amy: You're good, too! Do what you want ultimately, though. Email us, by the way. Email us at anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail if you want to share a mid moment, or if you want to just tell us, I don't know, some sort of sobriety journey, what what else?

Whitney: Oh yeah. Yeah, anything you want to share, you know, we have

Amy: Just anything, thanks. Anything at all, like.

Whitney: Tell us all your secrets. No, but you know, we had an email, a listener email us and just say, "It sounds like I'm just listening to I'm in a group with my girlfriends and we're just all talking." So if you have something that you wanted to add to this conversation,

Amy: We want to know.

Whitney: let us know. We want to hear.

Amy: Inquiring minds want to know.

Whitney: That's right. And thank you for your support.

Amy: Yes. Oh my god, we're so happy to have this out in the world and and doing it, because we're doing it.

Whitney: We're doing it!

Amy: So yeah, so.

Whitney: So yeah, so yeah, do whatever you fucking want though.

Amy: You do what you want, like.