Methylene Blue

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Amy: I'm Amy.

Whitney: And I'm Whitney. And you may be midlife.

Amy: You may be. You may be something, but you're anything but mid.

Whitney: That's right. Dang it! Almost. I was so close. No, I need to practice. I need to practice before I, like, on the way on the drive here, I need to do that. Because I just

Amy: I know, and we don't want to practice, 'cause it won't be natural.

Whitney: Well, you got natural. You got all the natural.

Amy: Yeah. Hey, hey! I read something that I really liked. It was a study. You know, whenever I see a study on social media, too, I have to verify it, 'cause I'm like, trust, but verify, 'cause I don't really believe anything. I have seen things that'll say a Harvard study, and you go, and there's literally no proof, nothing, zero. It's it's It's baiting you. It's like quick bait.

Whitney: Right. It's a lie.

Amy: Ooh. Anyway, Mark Hyman shared, I like him, too, I think. So, he study he shared that there was this Harvard study about caffeine being good for you and staving off dementia.

Whitney: Yeah, we just talked about it. Anyway, like not drinking caffeine shortens your life. Remember we talked about it?

Amy: Yeah, we did. We did. And so, they had a huge, long-running Harvard study that followed over 131,000 people, mostly women. I knew that would be a big hit for you. It is very exciting. Mostly women from the Nurses' Health Study for up to, are you ready for this, 43 years, which is

Whitney: That's exciting. Oh. Wow.

Amy: 43 years ain't what it used to be. Okay? I mean, that's like the 80s. But, anyway, they tracked coffee, tea, and dementia, and cognitive outcomes, and the key findings for mid midlife women specifically it it included a mean age at baseline of 46.2 years. So, you know, right in that midlife window, right? Higher caffeinated coffee intake was significantly associated with lower dementia risk.

Whitney: Okay. Yep. Mm.

Amy: I feel so validated.

Whitney: You're so excited, 'cause you just love your coffee.

Amy: Cutting cases nearly in half when comparing the highest to lowest consumption groups. So, higher caffeinated coffee drinkers reported less subjective cognitive decline and performed modestly better, unfortunately, only modestly, modestly better on objective cognitive tests. And tea did the same thing, basically.

Whitney: Honestly,

Amy: So, it's not just coffee. It's any caffeine that you want to Well, not soda.

Whitney: Cokes, yeah.

Amy: No, no, no. Coffee or tea, let's say that. And decaf showed no such benefit, which is super interesting, 'cause it's not like that placebo thing. So, it's about something about that caffeine itself. And the sweet spot was two to three cups of caffeinated coffee a day or one to two Can you tell I've had mine, because I'm talking so fast? or one to two cups of tea.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Wow. I didn't even finish my I never even finish my one cup.

Amy: That's nuts to me.

Whitney: I don't know I think I I don't like the taste of it, I guess.

Amy: You don't.

Whitney: I need to have some of your coffee and see. And then, I was going to ask you, because you mentioned it when you were in Peru that the coffee was so good you didn't even have to put anything in it.

Amy: Dude, I went to this coffee house. It's one of the 50 best in the world. And they had like a sommelier for for coffee. And they don't even have anything out. There's no cream out. There's no sugar out. Even their sugar packets, 'cause I went back, even their sugar packets said, "You probably don't need it," on the sugar packs in like English.

Whitney: Oh. Yeah. Oh, that's crazy.

Amy: And they were right. Like, I drank it like black, but it was just so flavorful and different. It was a whole different experience.

Whitney: Did you bring some of it back?

Amy: Yes, sure did, from that exact coffee place. Well, I haven't made it yet. I feel like I need to do it justice and do like a pour-over, like a slow pour, something like that.

Whitney: Oh, good. So, you're enjoying it. Oh, great. I don't even know what that means. How a slow pour-over

Amy: It's pour the It's that glass thing that looks like it has a funnel on top, and they put a filter in there.

Whitney: Is it like aerate?

Amy: It's like drip, really. It's like drip coffee.

Whitney: I love that you love coffee.

Amy: Well,

Whitney: I love that you're into it.

Amy: my nephew's wife, she's so into tea like it's like a life thing for her, tea. And I was like, wow, I'm not like that into it. You know, like

Whitney: Yeah. She has moments with just tea. Like like she has moments throughout the day where she has teatime like the British?

Amy: Oh, yeah. She has like a whole tea setup in her office. She invites people in. She like drinks tea all day everyday. Like, she's like into it.

Whitney: I wonder how that 'Cause you know green tea is supposed to be really great for you, like youthfulness and stuff, because of the antioxidants.

Amy: Yes. It is. Yeah, it is. Did you know though that I learned this actually, too, all tea is the same. Green tea is black tea. It's just a different like time when it's like not ripe or whatever. It's all the same. It's all the same.

Whitney: Oh. So, it has all the same benefits? It's not just green tea's got a better PR

Amy: It might have a little bit different benefits because of the timing of it and like when it's harvested or whatever. But, yeah, it's all the same. Isn't that a trip?

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy.

Amy: So, anyway, just noting this. This is a great thing. Keep your coffee or tea ritual.

Whitney: Two to three cups a day though, wow.

Amy: I drink that much. I drink that much. I love it.

Whitney: You drink all of that before 11:00 AM or something, yeah.

Amy: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, I do. Pretty much. I mean, sometimes it gets cold, and I dump it out, or whatever. But, yeah, I can pack down some coffee, and I love it.

Whitney: And it doesn't mess with your tummy?

Amy: It might.

Whitney: But your brain is clear.

Amy: But that's just the price you pay. All right, so I just thought that that was worth sharing, 'cause

Whitney: Yeah, I need to get Good to know, baby. I I like the ritual of it. Like, I That's why I I still make it, I think, because I like the ritual of it, and getting my coffee, and then sitting down. But then I never finish it. I don't know.

Amy: Huh. Huh. Sometimes I just love how it I look today that first sip, oh, my god.

Whitney: Well, you said you drink you're like excited at night for your morning.

Amy: I am. Sometimes it helps me go to sleep. I'll be like, the sooner I go to bed, the sooner I can get up and make coffee.

Whitney: That is hilarious. All right, well, I I love that you have a passion that brings you so much joy.

Amy: Thank you.

Whitney: And now, it's helping with your brain.

Amy: Yay!

Whitney: I wonder though Well, you said it's all it's a lot of women over 43 years. So, it impacts everybody. It's not just if you're prone to Alzheimer's or you have the protein or whatever. It's just across the board.

Amy: Apparently not. Apparently not. Yeah.

Whitney: All right, well, good for you.

Amy: I'm so curious what we're talking about today.

Whitney: I know. You don't even know. Well, it kind of ties in, because you know I'm totally focusing always on mental clarity and focus, because I'm tired of losing my words. Even a minute ago when I was trying to think of I go, "Oh, and green tea must have a great PR

Amy: PR, did you mean?

Whitney: team." No, I was saying Yeah, I was trying to say the the publicity around green tea is way better than like black tea. But it took me literally a good 1 minute or two to get the "team" out.

Amy: PR team. Yeah, because I thought you were talking about pH level, and you

Whitney: I'm sick of that. No, I'm fucking sick of that shit. Anyway.

Amy: You know what? This is funny that you bring that up, too. Mine's gotten better since I cut out my DHEA. I don't know. I cut out the DHEA and pregnenolone, which are together, which I'm going to cover pregnenolone next week. But to wrap up the hormone series. And, or whenever I'm covering it. And so, sorry.

Whitney: Right. Mid moment.

Amy: Anyway. I swear my brain's better.

Whitney: You think it's better than D now that you're not on the DHEA? Somebody DMed us and was like, "I love my DHEA.

Amy: DHEA?

Whitney: Yes. "I love it. I put it in my vajayjay three times a week," or something like that.

Amy: Wow. Well, maybe it's better locally.

Whitney: Well, remember I told you that the widow friend of mine said, but I I swear she made it seem like she was taking a pill. But maybe she's swabbing it up in there.

Amy: Yeah. Interesting.

Whitney: Keeps it Interesting.

Amy: Well, I was taking a pill, and now I'm not, and my face has stopped breaking out. So, I'm thrilled. And I am noticing that I am my brain is functioning better, like, 'cause I was really

Whitney: Look, all you have to do is tell yourself that it's having a positive impact. On the drive here, and then we'll get to my my topic, but on the drive here, I was listening to Oprah, 'cause I love to listen to her podcast. And I can't remember the name of the guy or the book that he wrote, but it's all about beliefs, which we already know impacts the way you see the world, and the way you interact in the world, and the things that happen to you in the world. And he was talking about the placebo effect. And he was sharing a study where I can't remember how many men they took that were having knee issues. And 2/3 of the men had real knee surgery. And the doctor went in, did the did the knee surgery. And then, 1/3 of the men, the doctor went in, opened up the knee, went and got a coffee, came back, sutured them up. They didn't get the knee surgery. And over the course of you know, from right away up until 2 years later, the results were pretty much the same.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Stop. Oh, my god.

Whitney: Isn't that insane?

Amy: That's insane.

Whitney: Look, I read a whole book, and I'm sure I've talked about it before. I think it's called Beyond Belief or The Belief of Biology or something like that.

Amy: Yes. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. And it talks about how people have cured their spinal injuries and stuff. Now, you got to spend a lot of time You're sighing like you don't believe it.

Amy: No, it's just like, wow.

Whitney: It's mind-blowing. It's mind-blowing. But, yeah, I believe it.

Amy: No, I believe it. No, people have. I know.

Whitney: And I've tried to use it on my eyes, you know, to make my eyesight better.

Amy: Oh, yeah. And it worked?

Whitney: It worked, but then I'm not diligent. This is the problem. It's consistency and dedication. And like the guy that healed his spinal injury, he was laid up obviously, 'cause he had a spinal injury, and he spent like 3 hours a day meditating on that. I just don't have Now, you know.

Amy: I mean, I'm forgetful. There's so There's so many things to do that I get forgetful.

Whitney: I don't have a spinal injury, but I would love my eyes to work better. Yeah.

Amy: You know, I have to write it on a post-it note, put it where I can see it, and then like and then maybe I'm going to do it.

Whitney: Yeah. Even when I know 100% that it works, I'm still like, "Meh."

Amy: Yeah. I know. Oh, later. Tomorrow.

Whitney: I guess it's just laziness. I'm lazy.

Amy: I don't know. I don't know what it is.

Whitney: Anywho, all right, my topic today is methylene blue.

Amy: Ooh. Have you used it?

Whitney: Do Have you heard about it? Do you know about it?

Amy: I've used it.

Whitney: Oh, okay. Great. Oh, I don't like your face. I don't like the face that you're making.

Amy: It turned my mouth blue. No, it's not bad.

Whitney: No, I want to I want to hear about it. So So, I've My sister's taken it for several years. But my sister kind of goes gung-ho on things. She and

Amy: Mhm. Which sister is this?

Whitney: This is the my No, not my youngest, my middle sister, who is 7 years sober as of yesterday. So, congratulations to her. And since becoming sober, she's tried to find other ways. She can't use Adderall, you know. She she doesn't want to use any substances. So, she's been on this journey to find things that work for her. But sometimes I wonder, 'cause she's, you know, she doubles up. She I mean, look, even though she's in recovery, she has an addict brain, right?

Amy: Okay. Wow. Amazing. Yes.

Whitney: And so, if it's just her natural instinct to be like, "Oh, well, if one pill works, then three pills will be amazing," you know, that kind of a thing.

Amy: I live with someone like that. And he's done it with methylene blue. Yes. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hilarious. Okay, so she's been on it for a while, but I was like, "I don't know." You know, I don't know about that. Well, then my mom had this bout where she's just been very tired and she had she got sick, you know, very sick for a couple of weeks with terrible stomach issues. So, she was dehydrated, things like that. My sister put her on methylene blue. Now, when my sister puts you on something, she's just It's like she's, you know, a scientist in a lab.

Amy: Mhm. Okay.

Whitney: And she's just concocted some things and throwing it out there.

Amy: You do that, too! You do that! You make your own peptides and shit.

Whitney: So, I do a little bit. No, I know. But I do some research on it. But, anyway, and so when I found that that my mom was on it, I was like, you know, let me do a little bit of research on this, because my mom, after two day Well, she'd been on it for about 10 days. And I'm going to share a little bit of the story, and then I'll give you more detail later, but this is what made me do some research. Is she woke up like, you know, one day, and she was like, "I'm back!" And she was like, "I have so much energy. I cleaned my whole house today. I've been out. I am back. I am better than ever." And I was like, "Holy moly."

Amy: Wow. She put the meth in methylene blue.

Whitney: Exactly. And so, I was like, let me do a little research on this. Well, come to find out, I had also put her on saffron. So, saffron is a great mood enhancer, and it helps with serotonin.

Amy: I had no idea.

Whitney: So, yeah. So, she was doing both of those things, and basically had toxic serotonin, which I'll have to tell you about that later.

Amy: What? Uh-oh.

Whitney: Basically, one medication was holding on to the serotonin, and the other medication was having your body create more serotonin. So, you are overloaded on serotonin.

Amy: Oh, shit.

Whitney: And so, she's like, "I feel the best I've ever felt."

Amy: And then did she crash?

Whitney: But it was No, we got her off of it. After this research, I was like, "You got to get off one of them." And she was like, "Well, I'm going to get off the saffron." So, she's off the saffron for now. And she's not feeling as great.

Amy: Oh, good. Yeah.

Whitney: But, you know. But for two days, she was like, "I'm the best I've ever been, yeah!" And I was like, "I want what she's having." So, I started doing some research. So, I'm going to give you the deets on methylene blue. First of all, it is a wild ride. It's crazy. It was discovered in 1876. We're going way back for some history history lesson here. And it was created to produce an intense an intense, vibrant blue color

Amy: Yes. Okay.

Whitney: for dye. It was a dye. It was a synthetic dye.

Amy: It was a dye. Okay.

Whitney: Particularly cotton, whatever.

Amy: They've had a lot of trouble with blue dyes, right? Especially ones you can eat, but yeah.

Whitney: I don't know. Anyway, it's it's an organic salt that looks like a dark green powder in its dry solid form, and then when you dissolve the crystals in water or alcohol, it interacts and makes this striking, brilliant blue.

Amy: Okay. You mean it's not even blue when it's a salt? Weird.

Whitney: No. It's dark green. Anyway, so that's how it was created in the beginning. All right? And then, early on, doctors could they couldn't see tiny bacteria under microscopes, so they started using methylene blue to see the germs. All right?

Amy: Okay. Why?

Whitney: Then, they Because they couldn't get if they were under Like, scientists were trying to study germs and things like that, and they they decided to drop some of the blue dye on the germs so that they could see them, 'cause the germs were clear.

Amy: Oh. They dropped him, and they stained the germs. Okay. Okay. Wow.

Whitney: And it stuck to them perfectly. All right? So, suddenly, that bacteria is a bright blue, and this helped them see germs for the very first time.

Amy: Interesting.

Whitney: So, then, in the 1880s, this scientist Paul Ehrlich Ehrlich, I don't know, sorry, Paul, was experimenting with putting methylene blue onto samples of human blood under a microscope, and he noticed this mind-blowing trick, that the deep blue dye completely ignored healthy human blood cells and attached itself to the germs only. So, now you're separating out the good from the bad. And he was using malaria germs. So, He was?

Amy: Wow.

Whitney: Yeah. So, he reasoned that this dye was like this magic bullet instantly attaching to these enemy cells. And he thought, I wonder if it's actually if it could destroy those cells. So, then, in the 1890s, two scientists, one of them was Paul and then another Paul, two Pauls, used the dye to treat malaria patients, proving it can kill the parasite inside the body without damaging any healthy tissue.

Amy: Yeah, there's a lot of talk about that. Well, you know, my husband's had malaria so many times. Five or six. But basically, he's got the parasite living in him, and so it can flare up, right?

Whitney: Yeah. Does it not die ever? He still has it?

Amy: I don't think so. But he's taken He He's heard a lot about methylene blue

Whitney: Oh. About methylene blue?

Amy: Yeah. For We initially heard about it for something else, and then for malaria. And so, it it doesn't seem to have killed it for him, but we're still hopeful.

Whitney: Malaria? Well, here's the thing. I Again, let me just preface by saying, shocker, not a doctor.

Amy: Yeah, oh.

Whitney: Not a scientist.

Amy: We need to put that in the video.

Whitney: But some of the stuff that I was reading, he if he's just If he's just dosing himself, it's not enough. The The The methylene blue that you can get without a prescription has to be very, very low-dose, 'cause it's a It's a pretty harsh chemical. So, if he wants to treat his malaria, kill the parasite, I think it has to be under a doctor's supervision.

Amy: Uh-huh. Yeah. Oh.

Whitney: Because the the the methylene blue that you can get, and I'm going to stress that many times throughout this, it has to be an extremely low-dose.

Amy: Wait, it has to be an extremely low-dose?

Whitney: Of methylene blue. Like, you can't in in To to The reason I'm looking into it is for mental clarity. So, it was first used for Okay. dye. Then they used it for malaria. Then, they Wait, am I skipping ahead? Hold on. It's so It's so fascinating the way that they use this. Okay, no, I'm not skipping. Then, in the 40s, they 'cause soldiers in World War II, they were getting malaria all the time, so they were giving it to the soldiers, and it was turning their pee blue and their eyes green.

Amy: Damn.

Whitney: And so, they the guys didn't like it. They They didn't like that, and so they changed they changed it to this colorless pill instead of methylene blue. It was rejected. Anyway, but for decades, scientists just used it as a diagnostic stain. But then when they realized that it was actually helping in other ways, they used it there. Then the soldiers said, "No." Then they came up with a colorless way to kill the malaria, and then they went that route. So, suddenly, I know I'm skipping I'm like I'm getting excited, and I'm not getting my facts in a orderly fashion, but

Amy: It's okay. You're doing your best. It's good.

Whitney: All right, I'm doing my best. I did not take methylene blue. But scientists used it strictly as diagnostic stain. They dropped it on to cells under a microscope just to light up the mitochondria to so they could see it properly. And they started to notice that not only was it lighting up the mitochondria, it was actually changing it. It was giving it energy. It was bypassing broken parts of the cell and helping it produce energy. So, now, all of a sudden, it's got an even bigger impact, because now they're going to look at it for cognitive decline, Alzheimer's, things like that.

Amy: What is it? It's just a chemical and salt?

Whitney: It's a salt. It's a salt.

Amy: Okay. Okay.

Whitney: Yeah. It's an organic salt. It's It's It's a synthetic drug that they've created through this salt, basically. Again, not a doctor, not a scientist. This is all the internet. All right, so there they understand all of this, but they're keeping it this research is not out for you know, everyone. It's It's just in certain, you know, projects or Not everybody in the world knows about it. But in 2020, the study was leaked.

Amy: That's when it started to take off, because that's when I joined that community, Fit for Service, you know. They all started doing it.

Whitney: Yeah, exactly.

Amy: And and and I met these guys that had a company that was I can't remember what it was called, and they had little troches or whatever you could put under your tongue and turned your whole mouth blue.

Whitney: Yeah, it does turn your mouth blue. It turns your pee blue. And I guess if you take enough of it, it turns your eyes green.

Amy: Ooh.

Whitney: Not really a great look.

Amy: Like, which part of your eye?

Whitney: It didn't say.

Amy: The white part?

Whitney: Probably the whites. Yeah. That'd be awesome if it just changed your eye color.

Amy: Ooh. You don't want that.

Whitney: But, no, I think it's the whites of the eyes. So, yeah, in 2020, the lab research was leaked into the longevity community, and then health enthusiasts that are all under the radar, you know, back in 2020, they discovered that at very low doses it can stop acting like a harsh medicine and start acting like an energy booster for the brain.

Amy: Yikes. Uh-huh. That's so cool.

Whitney: So, that's what these biohackers started using it for.

Amy: Yes. Yes.

Whitney: All right? But So, the benefits So, the reason they started using it is because it enhanced mitochondrial energy. It also gives mental claris, improved focus, and it's a mood regulator.

Amy: Mhm. Mental claris?

Whitney: Did I say claris?

Amy: Uh-huh.

Whitney: Yeah, it's that's a new phrase in the biohack world. It's called mental claris.

Amy: Mental claris. Okay.

Whitney: Mental clarity.

Amy: Uh-huh. And then what was after that? Focus?

Whitney: Mood regulation. Mood.

Amy: Mood regulation, yeah. Right on.

Whitney: Yes. So, it acts as a MAOI, which can keep neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine active in the brain longer, which is why when my mom put it together with saffron,

Amy: Mhm. Well.

Amy: How is she taking it? Like a dropper?

Whitney: You know what? It's capsule. It was a capsule.

Amy: Oh. So So, her mouth isn't turning blue.

Whitney: No, but her pee is turning blue.

Amy: That's weird.

Whitney: Yeah. So, that Those are the reasons why people started to want to use it. It's giving your brain cells energy,

Amy: Mhm. Oh, shit.

Whitney: Oh, hello. mood clarity, I mean mental clarity What is up with me? Mental clarity,

Amy: Mental claris.

Whitney: improved focus, mood regulation. Now, here are the things that you need to know, because it And this is why like Luckily, because of this research, I was like, "Mom, you can't take both of these things." And then, by the way, there are some other drug interactions that you have to be careful about. You If you're taking an antidepressant, you should not be taking methylene blue,

Amy: Ooh.

Whitney: because it can lead to the serotonin syndrome.

Amy: Yeah, MAOIs and SSRIs, I think those don't mix.

Whitney: Exactly. Exactly. Because it hangs on to serotonin, and those antidepressant drugs increase the produce of serotonin production of serotonin. Damn it! The produce. Mental

Amy: Okay. Good.

Whitney: The lettuce, the serotonin lettuce. Dad gummit. And it's right here.

Amy: It's right there in front of you.

Whitney: I'm just getting excited, so I'm not finished reading.

Amy: You're excited. Your brain's moving Your mouth's moving at a different pace than your brain. Yes.

Whitney: 100%.

Amy: As it does. As it does.

Whitney: And I didn't even finish my coffee today.

Amy: Maybe you should.

Whitney: Let me just take a breath. I'm just getting so excited.

Amy: Okay. Why are you so excited about this?

Whitney: I don't know.

Amy: Are you going to start using it?

Whitney: I don't know. I'm a little scared of it.

Amy: Why?

Whitney: Because I'm not sure I trust where I would be getting it, because it's not It's just like any supplement, right? It's not FDA-approved.

Amy: It's not regulated, right.

Whitney: Which my sister would say the FDA is, you know, BS, and they're just trying, you know, Big Pharma, and duh duh duh duh duh, you know. And I'm like, all right. Well, I'm on the fence. So, anyway, I'm waiting to see what happens with my mom.

Amy: Yeah. See what happens.

Whitney: She still feels good, but not as great as she was.

Amy: She's your guinea pig.

Whitney: Yeah, when she was uh overloading on serotonin. But, yeah, you can't take it with antidepressants. There are other counter-indicative medic indicated counterindicated?

Amy: Counter- Contraindications.

Whitney: Yeah, exactly. It interacts dangerously with certain cough medicines

Amy: Eek.

Whitney: like dextromethorphan. Specific opioids like tramadol.

Amy: Ooh.

Whitney: Migraine medications and herbal supplements like St. John's wort.

Amy: Ooh. Oh.

Whitney: So, you just need to be very careful.

Amy: Interesting.

Whitney: Genetic hazard, if you have the G6PD deficiency, then you must avoid methylene blue entirely.

Amy: Fuck. Well, how do you know if you have that?

Whitney: You have to get a fucking blood test.

Amy: Oh, my god. What even is that?

Whitney: I don't It says, "Without this specific enzyme, the compound causes red blood cells to rapidly rupture, causing severe hemolytic anemia."

Amy: Okay, that sounds intense.

Whitney: Basically, you're destroying your own red blood cells.

Amy: Holy shit.

Whitney: Now, it sits at I I double-checked this. I'm like, all right, well, how many people have that genetic issue? 4.9% of the global population has the gene, and it's linked primarily to men.

Amy: Oh, good. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, so the chance you have it is low. But still.

Whitney: The chance Women is low, and even men. But, yeah, still,

Amy: Okay. Okay.

Whitney: just want to be careful. Do not use industrial aquarium-grade methylene blue.

Whitney: That contains heavy metals

Amy: Wait, this is in aquariums?

Whitney: Yes. I don't really I didn't dive down into that. Dive down in. But, yeah, you you use it in in fish tanks and stuff.

Amy: All right. All right.

Whitney: Anyway, don't use those those grades. You have to use exclusively USP pharmaceutical-grade methylene blue. Overdosing can actually cause the opposite effect, so

Amy: Oh, so three is not better than one, like your sister says. Exactly. Uh.

Whitney: Exactly. You have to really be careful about the dosage.

Amy: But then again, you have to take a lot to kill malaria.

Whitney: That's what I'm saying. That is a doctor issue. Like, don't try to kill malaria on your own.

Amy: Okay. Well, too late. But okay.

Whitney: Yeah. But if he's getting if if he's taking the regular dose, yeah, I don't know. Again, I don't think he's going to clear his malaria quickly, but maybe over time.

Amy: Well, some people have talked about it as a malaria preventative or prophylactics, prophylaxis.

Whitney: Prophylactics are very important.

Amy: Prophylaxis. So, you know, people would say, "Oh, take this when you go to Africa," or whatever

Whitney: Prophylactics are very important. Yeah.

Amy: It's like a malaria, you know, drug or what Preventative.

Whitney: Preventative. Yeah, keep it keep it at bay.

Amy: But I was like, no fucking way am I doing that. I took the malaria meds.

Whitney: Yeah, why wouldn't you?

Amy: People do it. People do it. And I I don't know about that.

Whitney: I don't know either. But I know you I'll look it up for another episode and see what I can find. Yeah. All right, so the side effects of methylene blue, even at pure low doses, you really have to be aware of the physiological reactions. Harmless discoloration, no big deal. All right, your urine and your poop might be bright blue or green.

Amy: Yeah. Yep.

Whitney: And if you do the drops, your tongue and mouth are also going to be blue.

Amy: Yes. And and Kyle Kingsbury, I don't know if anybody knows that guy, but he apparently got his teeth like redone, and then he took one, and it stained his teeth, so

Whitney: Oh, I would be so mad.

Amy: It finally wore off, I think, but it just took a while.

Whitney: Oh, good. Yeah, fun fact. Psych wards back in the day would put methylene blue in with the patients' medications so that they would know for sure that they took all their medications

Amy: Whoa.

Whitney: because their pee would be blue, and then you would know. You would know the patients that were not taking their meds.

Amy: Damn. Tricky.

Whitney: Another side effect is mild physical discomfort. Common mild side effects, nausea, dizziness, headaches, and a metallic taste.

Amy: Ooh.

Whitney: Did you have that?

Amy: I don't remember, but I didn't like it that much.

Whitney: You didn't really see a difference?

Amy: I mean, I don't know. No.

Whitney: Yeah. High dose risk, if the dose is too high, it reverses its benefits and triggers oxidative stress, rapid heart rate, and red blood cell damage.

Amy: Oh, good Lord.

Whitney: So, please, please, please. And I texted my mom yesterday. I was like, "Hey, you know, I'm going to do a an episode on methylene blue. Send me a picture of what you're taking, and how often are you taking it?" And she was like, "I'm taking it three times She was taking it every day. And then Reagan said or after the saffron incident, they decided, "Well, let's just do it every you know, three every three days or every other day, or just three days a week." Something like that. And I said And she's taking two pills. And she was like, "Maybe I should just take one pill." And I go, "What do the directions say?"

Amy: What do they say?

Whitney: She didn't get back to me, nor send me a photo of what she's taking. So, as mentioned earlier, the methylene blue is biphasic. If the tissue accumulation causes the body's internal levels to creep up too high, it's got a tipping point, and the behavior completely flips to what you don't want. So, you just have to be very, very careful with the levels.

Amy: Okay. Oh, that's too much precision!

Whitney: That's scary. I know. So, how the biohacking community tries to avoid the buildup is just like what I said that my mom's doing without any real supervision. You have to be a a concerned with the accumulation risk, because it does build up in your body. So, the cycling protocol, many many people follow the schedule of five days on, two days off, three weeks on, one week off, which I think is a little a little much, because it's impacting your brain, your kidneys, your liver. Those are the three organs that it's impacting.

Amy: A little much. Wow. I'm not convinced on this one. This one is I'm feeling like my result is like pass.

Whitney: Your mother My My My mom's routine taking it three times a week is a classic example of intermittent scheduling. You just want to make sure that you give your body time to kind of release some of that stuff, 'cause it does stay in your tissues. So, I asked, how long has this been used in this way? Like you said 2020. That's not a long time. But, apparently, that's just the commercial trend. But it's been science has been using it to supercharge the brain for nearly two decades, since 2008.

Amy: Mhm. Oh.

Whitney: Okay? And they believe that it has positive impact, and they're still looking like at with Alzheimer's and things like that.

Amy: Okay. Oh, that would be awesome.

Whitney: And then I said, can I use it like a cup of coffee? Like, if I only use it if I'm tired, like will I instead then I don't have to worry about it building up or any of that. I'll just need a little pick me up. No. You cannot. It doesn't work that quickly.

Amy: Yeah. Oh, really? Then how do you even monitor what's moving the needle?

Whitney: Mhm. You have to It's Well, you it's just like it's just like an antidepressant or a lot of the other things. You have to give it time to get in there and settle. It said,

Amy: How long had your mom been taking it when she had this...

Whitney: 10 10 days.

Whitney: 10 10 days. She'd been on it for 10 days, and she'd been on the saffron for like 3 days.

Amy: When she was like bouncing off the wall. Interesting.

Whitney: And she was like, "Best I've ever felt." And then I had to tell her that she was toxic. And she was like, "You're really bringing me down." And I was like, "I'm sorry,

Amy: I'm sorry.

Whitney: but I'm, you know, I don't want you to die." Anyway, she It says it does not provide immediate nervous system stimulation or sudden jolt of wakefulness. Instead, it works deep inside your cellular mitochondria, acting as an electron cycler to help cells generate metabolic energy more efficiently over time. The users describe the feeling as a steady baseline reduction in general brain fog, rather than a sudden burst of energy. So, you do have to take it

Amy: She's Yeah. Bummer. We like that. We like a reduced brain fog.

Whitney: for a little bit. Yeah. That's why I'm like, but I am a little scared about the other issues. So, I did ask. I'm like, okay, let's say I want to do it. It's not FDA-approved. It sounds like it's kind of like these GLP-1s and other peptides where if you don't want to get it from Big Pharma, you have to go, you know, into the gray area.

Amy: Yeah. I'm not doing this one. Mhm. Yes.

Whitney: And so, I was asking Google, lots of different Googles,

Amy: Googles.

Whitney: what are the three highly transparent, reputable suppliers in the over-the-counter market?

Amy: Okay.

Whitney: And here are three. Biopharm is an established chemical manufacturer operating in the US for nearly 50 years.

Amy: Okay. All right.

Whitney: Biopharm. Earth Harmony is a mainstream wellness brand that sells user-friendly consumer versions, and they have strict quality control audits to prevent contamination. And UFC Bio is a lab supplier that manufactures sterile solutions and biological buffers for high-precision lab research.

Amy: Mhm. Hm.

Whitney: So, and they said hardcore DIY biohackers often buy their ultra-pure raw powder to mix their own liquid drops. So, you can get it in a powder, you can get it in the liquid, you can get it in a capsule. Ultimate takeaway, it does help with mitochondrial support. It's scientifically proven in ultra-low doses. Biphasic nature, you just have to be very careful with the dose, because it will switch to giving you exactly what you don't want instead of giving you what you want.

Amy: Okay. God dang it.

Whitney: And then you have to have That part right there is I know. So, you have to do strategic schedules, because it clings to fat tissue in organs. Continuous daily use can lead

Amy: Oh, so your fat turns blue?

Whitney: Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. I don't know, because it says it didn't clean No, it only clings to non-healthy tissue.

Amy: What is

Whitney: That's why it was doing it. Yeah, there's filthy Filthy.

Amy: Filthy.

Whitney: Filthy fat. I need to go home. Am I having a stroke?

Amy: No, stop saying that.

Whitney: Why am Why are my words

Amy: Your cells are listening.

Whitney: Listening.

Amy: Yes.

Whitney: What did I say? I said filthy, and I meant healthy.

Amy: Filthy! Healthy!

Whitney: Healthy fat. Anyway, you can effectively manage and mitigate this accumulation by utilizing intermittent schedules like your like my mom taking it three times a week to help your liver and kidneys flush it out. And then remember that the burden of proof is 100% on you. You FDA does not approve it, so you need to do your research on where to get it, and then you need to follow the the directions. Don't double up.

Amy: Okay. So, you're waiting until you see what your mom does,

Whitney: You know what? Yeah.

Amy: and that's your guinea pig test.

Whitney: She She I think she's doing well on it. And and because she's already been on it long enough to start to see some impact, 1 to 2 weeks is when you start to notice a kind of a, you know, gradual difference. I think that what messed her up was then she started the saffron, and it bumped her up to an even

Amy: Mhm. Mhm.

Whitney: bigger impact, and now she's back down. So, she's like, "I don't know if it's working."

Amy: That makes me want to do it with saffron. Sounds great.

Whitney: No, dude. I know. I'm like, "Oh, high serotonin? Yes, please."

Amy: Yeah. I need it.

Whitney: But just like anything, too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

Amy: Truth.

Whitney: Truth.

Amy: Well, so you're waiting on your mom, and then I'm waiting on you.

Whitney: Isn't that horrible? Let's see how the 79-year-old does.

Amy: Does your boy Bryan Johnson do it?

Whitney: That's a good question. I think that he has done it, but it wasn't

Amy: I'm sure he has.

Whitney: It wasn't put in his In his regular protocol. supplement packs. Mhm. But I do feel like he he looked into it.

Amy: Hm. Interesting. If you have a methylene blue story, we want to hear it.

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. Please, email us, anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail.

Whitney: That's right. Sorry for my multiple midlife moments in my mouth.

Amy: Don't That sounds so gross.

Whitney: My midlife moment Don't apologize for those. That's what That's okay. It's just okay. It's just irritating. It is frustrating. Yeah, it's so annoying.

Amy: But I can't believe I've started to feel like I think better after cutting out my DHEA.

Whitney: Well, see, what happened today, you got your energy from coffee, so you were talking fast, but all your words were correct. I was getting my energy from the excitement of telling you about methylene blue, but I had nothing to back it up, so my mouth couldn't keep up with my brain.

Amy: Mhm. Whatever you say, Whitney.

Whitney: Did that make sense?

Amy: Yeah, sorta.

Whitney: Really? That didn't even make sense? Whatever.

Amy: Part of it lost me, but that's okay.

Whitney: I need to go home. I'm saying that I was getting excited about the information, but I didn't have any help

Amy: Yes! I know.

Whitney: with my brain forming the words, whereas you had caffeine today, so your brain got some healthy nutrients to help it along.

Amy: Oh. Okay. Yeah, I did. I did. I got some caffeine in there. I got my blood flowing. Who knows what's going on in my brain, a whole bunch of stuff.

Whitney: Sadly, I think that's also true for me.

Amy: Finish your cup of coffee from now on.

Whitney: I will. Thank you.

Amy: That's good. Yes, and you too, 'cause it's going to stave off dementia.

Whitney: That's right.

Amy: It's That's what we want. So, I'm passing on methylene blue for now, but we'll see. We'll see.

Whitney: That's right. I've Jury's still out for me. I do think it has some scientific benefits. I just don't know if it's better than doing some other things, like NAD+ or something.

Amy: I know. I wondered about that, too.

Whitney: I'm still doing the nasal spray.

Amy: Everyday?

Whitney: No. When I'm tired.

Amy: Maybe today.

Whitney: I I feel like I've got enough energy. I just need better words. Anyway, I don't know.

Amy: Yeah. All right, well,

Whitney: Just remember, you're all doing the best that you can. That's right. And at the end of the day, we fucking do what we want.

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