Progesterone and HRT for Midlife Women, Perimenopause, and Menopause

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Whitney: I'm Whitney.

Amy: And I'm Amy and this is midlife.

Whitney: But you're anything but mid.

Amy: I knew you'd get good at that.

Whitney: Uh.

Amy: Hi.

Whitney: Is my lip bleeding?

Amy: I can't believe you popped yourself. It's not bleeding, but it is red and it is a little swollen. You have popped yourself in the face.

Whitney: I popped myself. I would call that a mid-moment. I lost my grip because as you get older, your grip needs to be worked on. Your joints aren't working as well.

Amy: No. Actually, that's not true. Your grip strength is a measure of aging.

Whitney: Longevity.

Amy: Like, yes. But you're not supposed to just work on your grip strength. It's It's the hang.

Whitney: No. It's a marker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like it Like putting something in your hand and just doing the the little grip exercises is not going to mean that you live longer.

Amy: Right, right, right.

Whitney: But when you hang from a bar and your grip is getting worked on, that actually does help with longevity. But I don't understand all of the

Amy: I think it does, yeah. Yeah. Well, anyway, you popped yourself.

Whitney: I popped myself in the lip right before we started. And immediately, that's another mid-moment. Immediately started bruising.

Amy: So sorry. That's so wild.

Whitney: I know. I can feel it. It's getting bigger as we speak. And it wasn't even that big of a deal. Have you had that, do you bruise easily?

Amy: Not really.

Whitney: See, this sucks. I will barely graze like a kitchen counter or handle, and I will have a bruise in a matter of minutes.

Amy: I wonder if it's one of those redhead things. You know?

Whitney: No, I think it is an aging thing.

Amy: Oh. Are you going to be one of those people that my dad would get those red blotches?

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Oh, horrible. My mom's- Sorry, Mom, but Yeah, my mom and my father-in-law, they have just They hide their arms because barely anything bruises them.

Amy: Hold it up hot. Yes.

Whitney: I guess so. Well, I'm going to have to find a pill for that.

Amy: I wish they could fix that.

Whitney: You know what, though? I think minoxidil because it opens up your blood vessels

Amy: Really? Uh-huh.

Whitney: it can make you bruise easier, maybe.

Amy: Oh. Oh, wow. We are

Whitney: I'm going to blame this lip on minoxidil.

Amy: We should do one on minoxidil. I would love to know more about it. So you're taking that.

Whitney: Okay, yeah. I am for the rest of my life.

Amy: Oh, my god.

Whitney: Cuz I want my head full of hair.

Amy: Oh, my god. That's right. I know how you feel about that.

Whitney: Anyway.

Amy: Well, I have a mid-moment. Mine is that I've started playing mahjong.

Whitney: Okay. Mahjong? Now, who

Amy: Mahjong.

Whitney: Who taught you? How are you learning?

Amy: I was taught by my friend, Laura Murphy, over Well, her daughter and my daughter are friends. We took them for spring break. She taught me on spring break. And so, now I went and played for the first time on Sunday like with people as someone who knows how to play. And I watched a series on YouTube to brush up. And I By Southern Sparrow, if you're interested. It's a really good series. And anyway, I love it. I love it. I've ordered a table. I've ordered some tiles, two different sets of tiles. Yeah, the dice, the mat, everything. There's all sorts of tiles.

Whitney: Yes. Okay. With a group? Yeah. You're loving it. Really? Yeah, cuz they're really pretty. So, who are you going to teach next? Like who

Amy: My friend Julie.

Whitney: Oh, my gosh.

Amy: Do you want to learn?

Whitney: Maybe.

Amy: It's fun. I like it.

Whitney: I I don't know why I'm so off on it. Like I think maybe it's because, oh, everyone's doing it, so I'm not going to do it. And then, my boyfriend's mother has played mahjong forever and she has a Tuesday night game where she teaches people and Ryan's sister's friends go and some of my friends that I know. And I just am like, I don't know why I'm so opposed to it.

Amy: I don't, either. Wow. Oh. Yeah. I don't, either.

Whitney: I think maybe because it looks really confusing.

Amy: It's fun. Yeah, but it's not. It's fine. It's kind of like

Whitney: If you have ADD, is it?

Amy: It can feel a little overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you have ADD, but I'm going to make Justin learn. Justin's going to try. He said he wants to, so yeah.

Whitney: All right. Well, I'll I'll try. I'll try.

Amy: Mhm. I'm excited.

Whitney: If I'm If you're, you know, if you're inviting me to teach me, then

Amy: Sure, I'll teach you. Yes, absolutely.

Whitney: I don't know what what it is. I'm just like, oh, man. But I love games. I love board games and games of all kinds.

Amy: It's a date. You love games. Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. It's kind of like rummy or something like that.

Whitney: I love Rummikub.

Amy: Okay, then it's It's that It's not that different.

Whitney: Okay. Ryan got me for Mother's Day, Mexican Train dominoes.

Amy: So, yeah. Mexican dominoes, I don't know what that is.

Whitney: But I don't I haven't Is that like a Mexican train? I have Yes, that's that's it. It's Mexican Train.

Amy: Is that like Mexican Train? Oh, it's so fun. I love Mexican Train. You've never played Mexican Train?

Whitney: I'm sorry. It's dominoes, but it's Mexican Train. I don't think so. I played dominoes with my Grammy when I was little.

Amy: Oh. Super fun. Super fun.

Whitney: He bought me a whole set with like I have my own personalized train station with little trains. But you don't really use trains, right? That's just for

Amy: Yep. You do use the trains. Yes.

Whitney: Oh, you do? I thought it was just for decor.

Amy: Yes. No, you Everybody gets their own train. You put your train on, you take it off, it depends. It's really fun. Teach your whole family. They can all learn. You could do it like after Thanksgiving meal.

Whitney: Oh, on your domino. I am not good at reading the directions.

Amy: That's okay. Watch a short video.

Whitney: And I just kind of skip through. Okay, yeah, maybe watching a video would be way easier.

Amy: Just watch a short video on YouTube. That's way easier.

Whitney: Oh, okay.

Amy: And there There's everything. Excuse me, there's everything out there that you can learn on YouTube, so just do that.

Whitney: All right. Well, I know we want to get to the episode because I'm sure you've got a ton of information to share, but I did want to just Why are you laughing?

Amy: You're sure of that. Okay.

Whitney: If there's one thing I'm sure of is that you have a lot of information to share today. But I want to hear about your trip. You just got back from France.

Amy: No pressure. Okay. I did. I went to Paris for nine days.

Whitney: And how was it? Did your daughter speak fluently the whole time?

Amy: She was over it by about day seven. And when I would ask her to speak French, she would be annoyed and she wouldn't do it. She wouldn't give me a hug. She was like not She didn't want to be with me anymore by day seven. But it was still a great trip.

Whitney: Oh. She's seven. She was at her saturation point.

Amy: She still like kept it together and was kind. She wasn't mean.

Whitney: How many days were you there?

Amy: Like eight or nine. I hate the weather in Paris. I appreciated my own life in a whole new way. I We both were happy to get home and I was like, "Hmm, interesting." Very interesting. Like, I think I had built up a romanticized fantasy version of Paris. And turns out, it's fucking cold if you're a Texan. And I was like It was cold. The days were really long. The sun rose at 5:30 and set at 10:00 p.m. And like Yeah, really long days and really cold. It was rainy all the time. And

Whitney: But were the people cold? Because Because she was speaking French, were they all very kind?

Amy: Everyone was nice. People in People in France are very polite. I think they're just extremely polite.

Whitney: I did not have that experience.

Amy: Really? I think that if you make an effort, they they really are, so yeah.

Whitney: I made an effort, but then I would get so worked up. I think I told you, I accidentally started speaking some Spanish. And they did not

Amy: They want you to respect their language.

Whitney: I was trying, but then I got so flustered.

Amy: Yeah. It's easy to get flustered.

Whitney: It was a whole thing. Well, your outfits were on point, I felt.

Amy: Oh, thank you.

Whitney: What were you saying, your fits?

Amy: I tried. Yes.

Whitney: I thought it was I thought you looked really cute. And it's stressful to try I'm trying to dress like pack right now for my trip to France.

Amy: Thank you. Mhm.

Whitney: And you just don't know there's just I want to look cute, but I I Did you check a bag? I guess you did.

Amy: Oh, yeah.

Whitney: Yeah, I'm going to have to.

Amy: Yeah. Justin bought me this massive trunk. I actually took that.

Whitney: Oh, nice.

Amy: Yeah. So, I took my Rimowa trunk that I got for Christmas and So, anyway, we were packed to the gills coming home, too, cuz we shopped. She likes to shop, so we had some fun shopping.

Whitney: Oh, yeah.

Whitney: That's so fun. Well, good. Well, welcome home.

Amy: Thank you. It was, all in all, it was good. If I I need to just put out my Paris recommendations cuz I made a whole list of things.

Whitney: What are you Oh, yeah, you should.

Amy: Yeah. Well, shall we get into it?

Whitney: Let's get into it.

Amy: All right. Today

Whitney: What hormone will we be discussing?

Amy: Today is progesterone. So, we have covered estrogen and testosterone. Now, we're on to progesterone, which is an integral part of our HRT.

Whitney: Yes, and I only know one thing about it, so I'm curious to

Amy: What's the one thing you know?

Whitney: that it Well, I know two things: it helps with sleep and it thins the lining of the uterus.

Amy: Okay. Very good. It sure does. You are dead-on. Okay. So, progesterone is a hormone that is playing a vital role in our reproductive system and really everything else. It's often called the pregnancy hormone because it's very important in conception and maintaining pregnancy, but its functions far extend past that. It influences mood. It influences brain health, bone health, hormonal balance. I know.

Whitney: Oh, okay.

Amy: Well, you kind of knew cuz sleep, you know.

Whitney: Well, yes, if it helps with sleep. But I honestly, I thought that was the only two things that it did. Like I didn't know that it had any other health benefits. I gave the other hormones all of those health benefits.

Amy: Oh, no. Uh-uh.

Whitney: But they work together.

Amy: I was kind of surprised. This was so interesting to research. Like I really enjoyed it. And by the way, I need to update We need to do a supdate pretty soon. But um but I did do my blood work panel and I got results from my algae experiment. And it was super interesting. So, maybe we'll do that on a supdate.

Whitney: Okay. Yes. Supdate. Yeah. Oh. But I thought you already told us about your allergy experiment results?

Amy: I didn't do the Yes. Like now, I have the official blood work, so I'll be able to fill you in on that. But yes, it was a fail. Yes, it threw me into menopause, which was so crazy. She was like, this really does look like it threw you into menopause, wild. And so, now I'm back. Now that I'm back on everything, so now we've re-upped my progesterone to 200 a day because you're on 300,

Whitney: Or not your blood work. Yes. I'm on 300.

Amy: which we'll talk about as we go through this. But I went up to 200, but it is the kind of thing that you gradually tweak. I was 100 at night and now I'm 200 starting literally yesterday, so

Whitney: Okay, good.

Amy: I'll keep you up to date on that as we progress. All right. So,

Whitney: Okay, yeah.

Amy: progesterone is primarily considered female, but it's in men, too. It contributed to fertility and overall well-being. So, everywhere I research this sorely fucking lacking. Menopause.org doesn't even have clearly stated hormone guide hormone guidance. I couldn't believe it.

Whitney: What? Who is running that?

Amy: Menopause.org sucks. The best one I found and the most comprehensive was Jolene Brighten. Jolene Brighten, if you don't follow her, I would say do follow her. Do you follow her?

Whitney: Oh, I don't. I don't know who she is.

Amy: She's great for women's health. And so, Dr. Brighten, b-r-i-g-h-t-e-n.com, and I'll put this particular link because she talks about it for perimenopause. So, we're going to talk about perimenopause and menopause with progesterone. So, and and just midlife women in general. So, in midlife, progesterone is the first reproductive hormone to decline. For perimenopausal women, and I remember my sister taking it like in her 30s, too, and doing a cream and I was like, "What the hell's progesterone, right?" I mean like I looked at so many websites and they don't even have like a clear definition of it and I I was so annoyed.

Whitney: Huh. Yeah. That's pretty impressive that your sister in her 30s was taking it cuz I don't think people were talking

Amy: I know. That was over 20 years ago. No, I thought I I didn't even know what it was.

Whitney: about that. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. She had to have like an ablation and stuff like that. She started having heavy periods and that's very tied into all this. So,

Whitney: Mhm. Mhm.

Amy: for perimenopausal women, bioidentical progesterone is primarily used to relieve insomnia, anxiety, and mood swings. When prescribed as part of your whole HRT, it acts as a crucial uterine protector, too, against estrogen-related risks. Those two go hand in hand. We'll cover more of that. Let's talk about the history just for a moment. In the 1920s, scientists George Corner and Willard Allen

Whitney: Mhm. Yes, I didn't know that. Oh, Willard.

Amy: I know. They spent years collecting pig ovaries from slaughterhouses.

Whitney: Oh, my god.

Amy: The olden days. They successfully isolated the exact chemical responsible for thickening the womb and named it progestin, meaning like for gestation and pregnancy. In 1930

Whitney: Mhm. Mhm. Pro-gestation. Oh, got it.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. The chemical Okay, so in 1934, Adolf Butenandt along with some other European teams successfully purified the hormone into crystals and mapped out its exact chemical structure and he later won a Nobel Prize for this work.

Whitney: Oh, wow.

Amy: Pretty cool. In 1935, they named it progesterone at an international conference. The scientists were like, "Oh, what do we call this?" and arguing about it. American scientists wanted progestin. European scientists wanted lutreosterone, luteosterone?

Whitney: Mhm.

Amy: And they compromised.

Whitney: They obviously lost.

Amy: Yeah. Well, they compromised and named it progesterone. So, now it refers to the natural hormone made by the body while progestin is used to describe the synthetic version in medicines like birth control. So, where does it come from? Where does Where does it come from? Where does it go? It's primarily derived from cholesterol. Weird, right?

Whitney: Oh.

Amy: And it's formed, you know, during ovulation and also by the placenta during pregnancy and during in the adrenal glands. And some is produced in the brain and body fat. So, like I I said, I mentioned cholesterol. It's related to cholesterol. It crosses the blood-brain barrier, accumulates in high concentrations within your brain, which makes me wonder about that brain fog, right? Plays an active role in protecting nerves, aiding neurogenesis, which means like our our reupping of cells in our

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Regenerating.

Amy: in our brain. Yeah. And promoting recovery from brain injuries. Neat, right?

Whitney: Oh.

Amy: I know. It's

Whitney: I wonder if they give progesterone to brain injury.

Amy: I wonder that, too. I didn't look that up. I'll try to look it up. It's also synthesized directly inside the brain by neurons and glial cells, whatever that is. It remains in the bloodstream for only about five minutes before your body starts to break it down. Progesterone serves as a fundamental steroidogenic precursor. So, your body uses it to synthesize other critical hormones.

Whitney: Oh, okay.

Amy: Including cortisol, stress hormone, testosterone, and estrogen. So, it is like very crucial.

Whitney: Well, that's why at the time, I didn't always realize. You you really do have to have the full recipe of the HRT. Like even testosterone, my sister's only taking estradiol and or estradol, whatever.

Amy: You really do. No, it's estradiol, by the way.

Whitney: It is?

Amy: It is. We've been mispronouncing it.

Whitney: Well, it's O-L, so

Amy: I know. But I asked her yesterday on my blood work call.

Whitney: It's very confusing. Oh, extra

Amy: She said estradiol and I was like, we're going with estradiol.

Whitney: Okay. Estradiol and progesterone and no testosterone. And I'm like, no, you got to get the testosterone, too.

Amy: Uh-oh.

Whitney: It's a perfect blend. Anyway.

Amy: Yep, it is. And and then, other things affect it, too. Like I'm low on iron and so, we like devised a system to get me up on iron and stuff, which affects all this, too! I was like, oh, lord!

Whitney: I know. It really is an intricate puzzle. That's why I'm always saying the body is so incredible. All of this stuff was just happening naturally.

Amy: I know. Well, it's not like you can just fix one thing.

Whitney: No.

Amy: You know, you got to really look at the big picture. So, let's talk about the main functions of progesterone since we're on the subject. So, reproductive, we've kind of covered, right? It thickens your uterine lining.

Whitney: No, it thins it.

Amy: It Oh, wait. This says thickens. I don't know.

Whitney: I'm confused.

Amy: Maybe it thins it then and the estradiol Anyway.

Whitney: The estrogen is supposed to be the thickening agent and the progesterone

Amy: You're right. You're right. This is wrong. You're right. I don't know why I said that. So, anyway, something was wrong. Sorry. Okay, regulates your menstrual cycle, supports and maintains pregnancy, prevents premature uterine contractions, gets you ready for breastfeeding, all that kind of reproductive stuff. I know. Yes, if you're If you're low, you can have breast soreness, too. That's one of the symptoms.

Whitney: Oh, my nipples are starting to tingle a little bit. Oh. Oh, I've been having breast soreness lately and I was thinking that I needed more or I have too much estrogen. I don't know, that's a whole other thing.

Amy: Which is That's interesting. One of the symptoms

Whitney: Not going to derail your

Amy: I thought of low was breast tenderness, so

Whitney: Ooh. All right, I'm going to look into it.

Amy: I don't know. Okay, so

Whitney: But

Amy: the other functions, it supports mood regulation, right? It acts as a natural mood stabilizer, helping to alleviate irritability and heightened anxiety often experienced during this transition. I have unaccounted-for anxiety all the time, like all the time.

Whitney: For your whole life?

Amy: No, now.

Whitney: Oh, just since. Oh, really?

Amy: Maybe my whole life. Maybe since It's just more pronounced since I quit drinking, so.

Whitney: Oh, yeah.

Amy: Anyway.

Whitney: But that makes sense because if progesterone helps you sleep, you can't sleep if you're totally stressed out, so it's calming down the system.

Amy: That's right. It is. When it's broken down, it produces a substance called allopregnanolone. Nanono no no lone. Which Which, actually, pregnenolone we are going to cover soon. So, it acts on the brain similarly to natural anti-anxiety and calming compounds. It which helps us, you know, improve emotional stability and all that kind of stuff and promotes relaxation. It also helps maintain your thyroid function, which is interesting because it's produced by your adrenal glands, too. So, there's a symbiotic relationship there. It supports lactation. It contributes to bone health. Natural progesterone may contribute to building bone tissue, maintaining bone density, supporting long-term skeletal health. And of course, this is especially important as we age because our bone health suffers,

Whitney: Oh, all right. Yeah. Or we're not getting the calcium or our bones are getting weak.

Amy: right? Yep. It assists in brain function and nerve protection, sleep quality, as you mentioned. It has a natural calming and hypnotic effect on the brain. I like that, hypnotic. And by interacting with GABA receptors That's GABA, GABA receptors, and helps reduce frequent nighttime awakenings. I'm I'm waking a lot, according to my Oura Ring.

Whitney: Yeah. Oh, really?

Amy: Yeah. It's fucking annoying.

Whitney: That is annoying.

Amy: Cycle management for women with erratic, heavy, or prolonged periods. It helps thin and regulate uterine lining. Yes. Okay. It has also been shown to have natural pain relief. Higher progesterone levels may reduce emotional distress associated with pain, which is a phenomenon known as luteal analgesia. So, neat. Brain protection, it helps produce myelin, which is the protective coating around nerve cells that allows efficient communication through the nervous system.

Whitney: Oh, wow. Right? Who knew?

Amy: If a woman is experiencing severe hot flashes and requires estrogen therapy, adding progesterone is mandatory for those with an intact uterus. But it's also important if you don't have a uterus. I read that, too. Unopposed estrogen can cause the uterine lining to overgrow, significantly increasing the risk of endometrial cancer. We don't want that. We don't want that. Progesterone levels change throughout the menstrual cycle and decrease after ovulation. Progesterone levels continue to rise through pregnancy, reach their highest levels during your third trimester, produced by the placenta. So, it's a big deal for pregnancy, but we aren't worried about that today cuz

Whitney: Mhm. No. No.

Amy: we're not getting pregnant.

Whitney: No, ma'am. No.

Amy: No, we're not. No, we're not.

Whitney: Ain't going to have no babies, no more babies.

Amy: No. Thank you. Taking estrogen alone, like I said, can cause that thickening, which increases that chance of developing uterine, cervical, or vaginal cancer. Yikes. Progesterone thins the uterine lining and reduces this risk and has been noted that taking a combination of progesterone and estrogen can reduce the risk of colorectal cancer, too.

Whitney: Oh, wow.

Amy: Very interesting. I mean that That all that killed my mom, so that's particularly interesting for me.

Whitney: How old was she when she

Amy: 69. Young. I know, 2005.

Whitney: And they And she wasn't doing HRT. They weren't

Amy: She, not that I can recall.

Whitney: They weren't doing that. No, they weren't giving it.

Amy: No.

Whitney: Well, maybe in the 2000s, by then they were.

Amy: I remember one of her friends talking about it, but I don't think she took it at all. And she was so careful because she had ulcerative colitis, so. All right. So, I found a pretty good article also that I'll put in the show notes from familymedicineaustin.com. So, it was about the benefits of progesterone after menopause. So, we are really talking about after menopause, you know, during the 12-month span and perimenopause cuz we're having these fluctuations the whole time. So,

Whitney: Oh. Right.

Amy: symptoms, let's talk about your symptoms.

Whitney: For low progesterone?

Amy: Yes. Okay. For low progesterone: irregular menstrual periods, that's I mean so many of these are symptoms of other things, too, so take it as you will. Difficulty conceiving, mood changes, anxiety or depression, sleep disturbances, hot flashes, headaches, including migraines, bloating, weight gain, fatigue, changes in bone density, and it may also lead to estrogen dominance. Why do I have a hard time saying estrogen?

Whitney: Oh, I thought you were going to say dominance.

Amy: I did. Why am I having a hard No, hard time saying dominance.

Whitney: Dominance?

Amy: No, I can say dominance. But estrogen, I don't know why I'm having trouble. My tongue is having trouble with that. Okay. Estrogen dominance can contribute to heavy menstrual bleeding, low libido, depression, gallbladder problems.

Whitney: Ooh, gallbladder.

Amy: Gallbladder. You know what? I have a friend having a bunch of gallbladder problems.

Whitney: My friend just got her gallbladder removed.

Amy: Holy shit.

Whitney: Cuz she was having all kinds of stomach issues.

Amy: I wonder if it could be related.

Whitney: She could have just been on progesterone.

Amy: That is weird. I just got a weird chill. That's so interesting. Okay, if your gallbladder is bothering you guys,

Whitney: Apparently, we don't need it if people are getting it removed. I don't know what it does.

Amy: I don't either. I asked my friend. I was like, "What does it do?"

Whitney: I'm going to tell you right now. Hold on.

Amy: What does it Oh, gallbladder do? Okay.

Whitney: Yeah. Keep going.

Amy: All right. So, there are factors that can contribute to low progesterone, including like if you don't release an egg when you're trying to ovulate, like it gets stuck,

Whitney: Ooh.

Amy: or PCOS.

Whitney: All right. Real quick, the gallbladder is a digestive fluid produced by the I'm sorry, bile, it releases bile, which is a digestive fluid produced by the liver that acts like dish soap, soap breaking down fat globules into tiny droplets so your body can digest it. Well, maybe the people that are having stomach issues, they're getting too much dish soap

Amy: Yeah, maybe.

Whitney: and it's wiping them too clean.

Amy: Too much bile. Yeah. Ooh. Bile is so gross.

Whitney: Bile. Have you ever thrown up bile?

Amy: I think so.

Whitney: Yeah, it's like green. It's disgusting.

Amy: Yeah, it's acidic. All right. Other contributors to low progesterone levels include chronic stress. Guys, stress. Excessive exercise, excessive dieting, hypothyroidism,

Whitney: What do you mean excessive exercise?

Amy: I guess overexercising. Like you know how sometimes if you overexercise, you won't have a period? That kind of thing.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like ballet dancers and stuff like that.

Amy: Yeah. And or getting too thin. It all can affect your period. Hypothyroidism, hyperprolactinemia, I don't know what that is, low cholesterol, and of course our friend, perimenopause.

Whitney: Perimenopause.

Amy: Perimenopause. So, as we transition toward menopause, estrogen product- What the hell? Estrogen production declines, progesterone production declines, and ovulation becomes less frequent. We knew that. And we covered a lot of symptoms: hot flashes, night sweats, cold flashes. Haven't had those. But I do get cold sometimes.

Whitney: No. Not in a flash, but I'm I am cold, yeah.

Amy: Me, too. Vaginal dryness, discomfort during intercourse, fatigue, and low energy. So, how do we measure our progesterone? Well, get your blood panel done, right? There's a progesterone test or something called a PGSN test. Don't know what that is, but whatever. Just

Whitney: That's right. I think it's just a progesterone test.

Amy: Yeah. So, there are two types of progesterone we can get: natural, which is like bioidentical, or synthetic. Progesterone refers to hormone naturally produced in the body and progestins are, as I covered earlier, are synthetic versions used in medications and birth control. They have Progestins have different side effects and different effects compared to natural progesterone. Progesterone itself is generally not considered a thing that will cause you to gain weight, too, right? It's a It's a lack of that will cause you to gain weight. But seems like estrogen can cause some weight gain, right?

Whitney: Yes, it does. So annoying.

Amy: Okay. Estrogen needs progesterone to balance it out or, like I said, it can lead to health issues like endometrial buildup. So, doctors have to ensure these levels are managed, you know, even if you don't have a uterus, even if you've had a hysterectomy. You still have to manage your levels.

Whitney: Right. Absolutely.

Amy: So, the benefits of taking progesterone after menopause. I was researching this and I mean I found articles that didn't lead anywhere. It was hard to find information on this and I found that really surprising and annoying because I I guess that's why we are having such big conversations about it now.

Whitney: Well, I mean, the the benefits are everything that you just said.

Amy: Yes. The benefits are

Whitney: Whether it's pre-menopause or right or just in your normal 20s and 30s or now in menopause. Like, the progesterone does what it does.

Amy: It does. I guess I found it hard to find specific articles that talked about when you're done with menopause and for the rest of your life. Like, what do you expect when your cycles aren't fluctuating, right? Cuz remember how we talked about in the menopause episode, you're still having some cyclical fluctuations. And so, like once those level out, like, I guess then like your mom, I was thinking about your mom. She's taking 300 a day.

Whitney: Menopause and progesterone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right. Yeah, she is. But, but, in her mind, it's to help with sleep. But really, like we're saying here, all of the hormones have a place

Amy: It's helping everything.

Whitney: and they all work together to do a lot of the same things. So, yeah.

Amy: Yeah. Interesting, right? So, how do we take it? There's bioidentical and synthetic once again. Dosage is very individualized. So, we just covered what you're taking.

Whitney: I'm taking 300.

Amy: I was at 100, felt like it wasn't enough. Now, I'm doing 200 at night.

Whitney: Most of the people that I know are at 100. And when at 100, yeah. And when I told my friends that I was taking 300, they were like, "That's a lot."

Amy: Oh, yeah? Well, I don't know. I told my

Whitney: But I talked to my doctor about it cuz at one point when I was bleeding and we didn't know why, they suggested upping the progesterone to 600. And I was like, "Wait, can you not OD on progesterone?" And they said, "No, it doesn't stay in your body that long." Yeah.

Amy: Oh. I guess you just want to snort Yeah. It doesn't. Like we said, it's like It's being used within five minutes and then probably if you don't need it, it just

Whitney: Yeah. They're immediately Yeah. You pee it out.

Amy: Pee it out. I don't know. So, really, you start smaller, about 100, is what it said. This is what Jolene Brighten said, too. You gradually

Whitney: I'm trying so hard not to sing the song.

Amy: Jolene Brighten. Jolene Brighten. You gradually increase oral, micronized progesterone, which is what we're taking, I believe. Prescribed typically 100 to 200 mg, I think. Typically taken before bed. Topical doses vary widely, so I'm not speaking as much to topical doses, which is creams. Always start low, work with a practitioner, and work your way up, right? And you take it at bedtime because it is sleep-promoting and has calming effects. I like that.

Whitney: Mhm. Talking about the pill. Yeah. I actually It's It's interesting. And like we've said in other episodes, your body is continually changing, so the doses might not be as effective every month or whatever. But right when I got on it, I was sleeping great. Then I went through a phase where I was not sleeping great at all. Now, I'm back to sleeping great. I mean great. What's great?

Amy: Oh, what is great?

Whitney: But I'm not waking up in the middle of the night and not able to get back to sleep quickly.

Amy: I know. Okay, that's great. That's good.

Whitney: So, that's good.

Amy: Yeah. I know. Sleeping great. Like I'm so annoyed by the difference that I get from my sleep score from my Oura Ring now versus even six years ago.

Whitney: Yeah, what is that, even? That's so crazy. But the But it's more reliable now versus six years ago, I bet.

Amy: Probably. You know what? Probably. But I'm like, how does it know?

Whitney: I know.

Amy: How does it know?

Whitney: I don't know.

Amy: I don't, either. So annoying. But I have to be careful, too, because if I read in bed, it thinks I'm just laying there and then it really fucks up my sleep score. So, if you're using it, don't

Whitney: Oh, so you really shouldn't put it on until right before you're going to sleep.

Amy: I just slip it off like when I And then I just put it right back on before I turn off the light. Okay, so also, if you're in early perimenopause, you can do cyclical dosing, which is like half the 28 days, you know, you do it in it kind of keeps your periods really normalized. So, that's kind of nice if you're in early perimenopause. And then, continuous dosing, which is what we're doing. This is used later in the transition when periods have stopped for 12 months or longer. That's you, but sort of me, I don't know. So, this also is per Jolene Brighten, talked about supportive supplements for progesterone in perimenopause: adaptogens. So, remember our we talked about adaptogens in a different episode. So, chronic stress can disrupt ovulation, lower progesterone, and so, supporting adrenal function is essential during perimenopause. Cortisol dysregulation contributes to progesterone imbalances. So, adaptogens can help buffer stress and support healthy cortisol rhythms. So, take that before breakfast or with your breakfast.

Whitney: Oh. Yes. Oh, interesting.

Amy: So interesting, right? B vitamins also the exact same. The exact same. They're going to help mitigate cortisol and stress levels and take them early in the day. Then also we've got phosphatidylserine, passionflower, I've never even heard about that, and L-theanine.

Whitney: Oh, yeah.

Amy: I'm taking that.

Whitney: With your magnesium?

Amy: I take it in the afternoon with magnesium, yes.

Whitney: And you're not falling asleep?

Amy: Does that make you tired? Should I take it at night?

Whitney: Yes! Yes!

Amy: Fuck. Really?

Whitney: Yes, magnesium makes you tired.

Amy: No, magnesium you can take that anytime, they told me. Really?

Whitney: I was told to take it at night because it can make you sleepy.

Amy: Oh. I take a mag-

Whitney: Maybe the L-theanine magnesium doesn't. I don't know.

Amy: Oh, shit. I got to look into this. Okay.

Whitney: Let me Google it right now.

Amy: If you are taking progesterone for sleep, combining it with targeted nutrients to calm the brain can enhance results. Sleep struggles are a hallmark of low progesterone. The

Whitney: Magnesium can make you tired

Amy: Fuck me. Okay.

Whitney: because it promotes relaxation. But it can also boost energy levels if you're deficient.

Amy: Yes. The that Magnesium Breakthrough has all seven types. That's the one I'm taking, and they told me I can take it in the afternoon.

Whitney: Well, that's why I asked, are you falling asleep?

Amy: What about L-theanine? No, I'm I don't Maybe. Actually, maybe.

Whitney: If I am, no one's telling me.

Amy: Maybe.

Amy: L-theanine, does that make you tired? And I thought L-theanine helped with stress.

Whitney: I Me, too. But if you think about it, all of those things that are keeping you from stress are relaxing you.

Amy: are relaxing you. Yeah. Shit. Theanine. This this blend, when you take L-theanine with this passionflower, then it can support your GABA pathways. We like our GABA pathways. And nighttime relaxation pairs well with bioidentical progesterone. And then also she mentions omega-3 fatty acids, supporting brain health.

Whitney: Oh, yes. Yes. I'm deficient in that.

Amy: All I think I am, too. Brain health, hormone production, and inflammation. Sidebar,

Whitney: Yeah?

Amy: in my algae experiment, my inflammation was way down. So, maybe those algae supplements can help with inflammation, but found that very interesting.

Whitney: Yeah, but then it threw you into menopause. We got to dive deeper into this.

Amy: Because I wasn't taking any hormones.

Whitney: Oh. L-theanine does not directly make you sleepy or cause daytime drowsiness. Great. Instead, the amino acid promotes a state of calm alertness.

Amy: I like that. I love calm alertness.

Whitney: I would love that. Like I'm I don't think I've ever I'm not calm alert.

Amy: You don't have calm You've never

Whitney: No, I'm either alert Calm is not a not a not a typical description of any part of my day or night.

Amy: Calm alertness, it sounds great.

Whitney: I would love that. Wow.

Amy: Yeah. So, back to omega-3s, they support brain health, hormone production, and inflammation, which are all critical for us during menopause.

Whitney: And how are they related to the progesterone? Sorry.

Amy: These are ways These are supportive supplements for progesterone. So, really pay attention to your adaptogens, your B vitamins, your L-theanine, and your I don't know, and your omega-3 fatty acids. So,

Whitney: Oh, okay, okay. Yes. Your omega-3s. Okay. I'm taking all of those things.

Amy: they help cellular hormone signaling.

Whitney: Ooh.

Amy: So. So, one little sidebar that I found interesting is that you should definitely drink filtered water and healthy water because, apparently, synthetic hormones can that are in birth control and hormone replacement therapy can enter waterways through wastewater systems, and very small of fount amounts can affect aquatic life and fish reproduction and perhaps us, too. So, something to pay attention to, too, just Oh, my gosh. healthier water is

Whitney: But who doesn't drink filtered water now?

Amy: Yeah, most everybody does, right? Most everybody does. Although I do know some people that are just like, "I'm going to stick with the tap water."

Whitney: Really?

Amy: Yeah. I mean, cuz

Whitney: Even out of their fridge, they don't? I just replaced my fridge filter today.

Amy: Oh, that's a good point. Oh, I need to do that. That's a good point. Most people are getting their tap water out of the refrigerator.

Whitney: Yeah, it's out of the fridge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amy: So, gone are the days of drinking out of the garden hose.

Whitney: Oh, my god, I did it. Oh, I did.

Amy: I can remember the taste.

Whitney: A little metallic.

Amy: Yes. It's very distinct. It's usually not that cold.

Whitney: No, warm, especially in Texas.

Amy: Yes. God, I can remember it so well.

Whitney: Warm garden hose water.

Amy: I don't know if my kids have ever drank from a hose. I wonder if they have. Surely they have.

Whitney: I don't think so. I mean, you're not going to go to your neighbor's garden hose.

Amy: Well, no, but I've had the hose out when they would get a little sprinkler thing and run through it.

Whitney: Oh, sure, sure. Well, if we're talking that, then yes, cuz I used to let my kids play with the garden hose and they would put it in their mouths and stuff. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking more of like you rode your bike for, you know, from the front of the neighborhood to the back of the neighborhood

Amy: Right, and then you just turn it on and just

Whitney: and just, yeah.

Amy: Yeah. Well, anyway, I hope that that helps. We've got two more to cover: pregnenolone and something else. What the hell else?

Whitney: Pregnenolone? I know. Who knew we needed all of this stuff?

Amy: I I mean, I guess we kind of knew, you know?

Whitney: I am getting a better sense of how they all work together.

Amy: DHEA, that's the other one we're going to do.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, I want to know about DHEA.

Amy: I'm doing DHEA next week, so very excited about that.

Whitney: Okay, good. Okay, great.

Amy: Yes. And I just feel like

Whitney: Great.

Amy: it's been really interesting to cover these because when I go online, it's messy and not super clear and that has totally surprised me. So, I would say Jolene Brighten was one of the highlight resources.

Whitney: All right. I'll have to go follow her.

Amy: Follow her on Instagram, too. She's great. Yeah, she's really great. So,

Whitney: But also follow us.

Amy: follow us, too! Yes, and send us your mid-moments, send us anything. Oh, my gosh. We got a funny comment on our YouTube. This this watcher woman was like Watcher woman, sorry. I don't know.

Whitney: Okay. Is that her online name, Watcher Woman?

Amy: A woman. She was very kind. She was like, "I love this podcast. I hope it continues." It is. It's going to continue.

Whitney: Oh. Thank you, Watcher Woman.

Amy: And so, she

Whitney: Watcher Woman 5?

Amy: She was like, "Hey, if you want to boost your views, then maybe y'all should prop your feet up and show your feet in the thumbnails." And I don't know if that's the the audience we're going for. I don't know if that's our demographic, but

Whitney: Oh. I'm not even going to show you my toes right now because they needed a pedicure about 3 weeks ago, and then I just painted them myself, which looks like a kindergartner artwork.

Amy: Oh, come on. Just please, just for the thumbnail. Do it for the thumbnail.

Whitney: No, dude. I'm not doing it. Oh, my gosh. Nobody wants to see mine. They're horrible.

Amy: Thank you. Did you smile when you did it? I hope so. All right, well, I'm going to screengrab that. That's our thumbnail. So, thank you to her. And, yeah, just thank you for being here. We're so excited to keep growing this show. We're not going anywhere. We're available now in 4K, so you can put us on your big screen. How cool is that? So, yes.

Whitney: No, sorry. You could just zoom in to those toenails.

Amy: I mean, next stop, Netflix. That's what I'm thinking, so.

Whitney: Absolutely.

Amy: Yeah, yeah. All right, well, send us your mid-moments. Everything is in the show notes to follow us, email us, whatever you want to do, plus all the links.

Whitney: That's right. And don't forget, no matter what, we do what we want.

Amy: We do what we want.

Whitney: We do what we want.

Announcer: Please follow and subscribe to Anything But Mid anywhere you get your podcasts. Email us your mid-moment at anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail.com. And remember, we do what we want.