Testosterone

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Amy: I'm Amy.

Whitney: And I'm Whitney, and this is midlife.

Amy: But you're anything but mid.

Hello.

Whitney: Hello.

Amy: Have you remembered your mid moment?

Whitney: Yes, I did, which is the irony. Yes, I went to a little birthday luncheon on Sunday, and I'm sitting next to a girl, and she's like, "What did you do this weekend?" And I went, "Oh."

Amy: I do that all the time.

Whitney: I I literally could not think of one moment of the weekend.

Amy: From the weekend?

Whitney: None, zero.

I I was just like, "Uh." And then, you know, I don't know if you ever get this, but like, I could feel like the harder I worked for it the farther away it went, you know?

Amy: Evasive. It's just chasing you.

Whitney: I was like yes, I could visualize it just being like, "Bye!" and just like, "Hello!" and just a tiny dot in the in the back of my head. It was so alarming to me. I'm like, "Really? Not one memory? Like zero?"

So weird.

Amy: Did you remember it later? Did you have you done something fun?

Whitney: No.

Yes, I think

Amy: You still don't know?

Whitney: I'm not 100% sure. I think that I did something with Ryan. Like, I'm pretty sure. But it was Sunday, and I couldn't

Amy: Oh, it was Sunday and you couldn't remember Friday, Saturday?

Whitney: and I couldn't remember Saturday or Friday.

Amy: I do that as an exercise sometimes. Like I'll be like, "What did I do yesterday?" And then I'm like I really force myself to think about it like as an exercise, because literally someone will ask, I've I've been in that. You can't think of it!

Whitney: Yes.

Yes.

I mean, we laughed about it, but also I was just like, "Holy shit!"

Amy: Like, laugh/disturbed.

Whitney: There was nothing coming to mind, not one memory. Shit. I did just read something that was talking about how memories are created,

Amy: Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Whitney: and you have to be present. Like, you remember the things that you are actually present for. And a lot of times those are those are things that are traumatic or very impactful, they're very emotional, good or bad, and so you're automatically pushed into the present moment. But the reason you can't

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, no doubt.

Whitney: create, you're not creating the memory if you're not present in the moment. I was like, "Good."

Amy: Do you think you weren't present?

Whitney: Apparently not.

Because even now I'm like, "Uh."

Amy: And right now you're not present? You're not going to remember this tomorrow?

Whitney: No, I'm No, no, I will because we're making an intention to remember. We're talking about it. But yeah, it I still can't remember what I did for the weekend except for the birthday lunch.

Amy: Except for that moment.

Whitney: Because I was horrified. Right.

But it it is an interesting thought. Like, okay, well what if the exercise would be, for this week, I'm going to really focus on being present in the moment? And then, also I think creating the intention of like, "Oh, I'm sitting here with my son, and we're having this great conversation. I want to remember this."

I know.

Whitney: You know when you go into chat and you're like, "Please remember this conversation for future chats." Do you ever do that?

Amy: Yes.

Mm, yeah. I guess so. I don't know.

I've been trying not to use it, actually.

Whitney: I do that.

I do that so that I don't have to, you know, go back and look through things. I can just be like, "Hey, remember when we were talking about blah, blah? What did you say about it?"

Amy: Mhm.

Whitney: I think that's what I'm that's going to be my my experiment for the week is just, okay, I'm going to make an intention. I'm going to remember this moment, and then 10 years from now, I'll still remember it.

Amy: Mhm.

Yeah.

Yeah. I remember actually doing that once when I was really young, and I remember laying in my bed and going, "Okay, I'm going to remember everything about this moment." And I remember looking at my bed, looking at my door, looking at my room, and just like

Whitney: That's crazy that you would think of that at before intention and

Amy: It's weird, right? I don't know why I did it, I just thought, "Oh, I just wanted to remember it."

Whitney: You know, that's very interesting.

And so you have a vivid memory of sitting there looking at everything in your room?

Amy: I was laying in bed, it was nighttime and I was going to fall asleep. And I always like my door open because I didn't like the dark too much so I could see. And I remember like the yellow checkered bed I had, and like I remember where my vanity was, and I remember the door open, and the sticker that was on the door that someone had tried to rip off and hadn't ripped it all the way off, and you know, like

Whitney: Aw.

Yeah. So you can take yourself back to that moment? Yeah.

Amy: Yes, that was that was my intention actually, too, and it wasn't a special moment in any way. It was just going to bed at night.

Whitney: That's

No, but now it's embedded in your brain for life.

Amy: But I remember it. Isn't that funny? So I did I do think there's a lot of value in being like, "I want to remember this," and just like training yourself.

Whitney: But, but the reason that's working is because it brings you directly into the present moment. So you're fully present, and and lots of times, and I mean, I know for me, 100%, you're on autopilot.

Amy: Yes. Yeah, so you observe it.

Mhm.

Oh, or you're thinking about all these other things. Like even just recording this show,

Whitney: So you're just like

Yes.

Amy: I can't believe when I go back and look at them. I don't remember the pajamas I was wearing.

Whitney: Oh yeah, yeah.

Amy: I don't remember like

Whitney: But now we will.

Amy: Now we will! And uh, but you know what? My mind is somewhere else, and I'm wondering if you were like over the weekend worried about something else, or thinking about what you were doing next, or whatever, you know?

Whitney: I don't know. Yeah, probably. I mean, you're just

or I'm watching a movie and texting someone while I'm with, you know. It's just, yeah, it's it's distraction, and and again, that all just goes back to being in the present moment. So I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to do an experiment.

Amy: Oh yeah.

Whitney: that I'm going to intentionally say to myself, "I will, you know, this is this is Friday night. I'm going to remember what I'm doing."

Amy: Remember Friday night!

Whitney: Um

Amy: Great! I think this is a great

Whitney: We'll see how it works.

Amy: I just think it's it's like exercising your brain. Like, that's all we got to do!

Whitney: Yeah, but the older that we get we have so much like, you know, I talk about, you know, the library of experience or whatever, but think how vast the library is. So we get mad at the librarian because it takes her longer to go get whatever we've asked her to retrieve, and she's got her cane, and and it's so there's so many volumes that it's just going to take a little bit longer than the kid who has very few memories. Boom! It's right there.

Amy: She's like Moving slow.

Oh, well yeah, they have a lot less, yeah.

Whitney: Yeah, the library has there's there's not enough books in that library.

Makes sense.

So I'm going to say I have a lot of books in the library, a lot of, you know, places to go in the library and she may not be slow, but there's just it's it's too vast.

Amy: You do!

Cobwebs! You got like

Whitney: No.

Amy: aisles and aisles. You might have dusty cobwebs.

Whitney: Yes, it's just going to be rows and rows and rows of big, thick volumes of my life, and then I'm like, "Could you, Miss Librarian, could you please go retrieve Friday evening?" And then she'll be like, "Oh, I don't"

Amy: Yeah.

And it'll be right there.

Whitney: Yeah, well,

Amy: Except she's like got to climb a ladder first. She's got to go get a little step ladder.

Whitney: That's right. She's got to get a she's got to put it down. She's got to find the step stool.

Amy: She's got to slowly climb the step stool, and then she's like, "Oh, I forgot my glasses!" And then she goes back.

Whitney: But I do like that

I don't want my librarian to be old.

Amy: Sorry, you you said it, not me, okay?

Whitney: I know.

But I like the idea of the reason I can't retrieve so quickly is because the library is so big now.

Amy: I think also there's a case to be made for not remembering things because you are being present, right? Like, sometimes you're just so in the moment of the birthday lunch that you're like, "I'm not even thinking about yesterday. I'm not even thinking about what I did last year." Like, I'm not even involved in the past, it's just I'm so present that I don't know what else is going on.

Whitney: Yeah, "What's Friday?"

I wish I would have said that to her. "Look, I'm not I can't think about Friday because I'm thinking about the here and now

Amy: "I'm a master of presence."

Whitney: with you."

I'll try that next time.

Amy: Yeah, I mean, it may be, maybe.

Whitney: Yeah, we'll see. I mean, we can't Isn't it exhausting to be present for every single moment?

I don't know.

Or is that just me?

Amy: Maybe it's just you, I don't know. It kind of is.

Whitney: I don't know.

Did you have a midlife moment or an anything but mid moment?

Amy: I think it's just like I've been fighting a cold and it's just like, dude, I what? Yes. But I gave myself a lot of space to

Whitney: Yeah.

Taking you out.

Amy: just be sick, yeah. So that's good. Whatever. So, you wanted to know too about my Oura Ring?

Whitney: Yes, I have so many questions for you today before we get on to your book report.

Amy: Okay, well ask the question.

Whitney: Let's let's talk about your Oura Ring, because you got it for Mother's Day,

Amy: I did.

Whitney: and so you've had it for a little while now. How is it going? Do you feel that it is helpful or is it just one more thing you're trying to track that creates stress?

Amy: Mhm.

Mhm.

I like it. So I had one way back when they first came out, and I really liked it, but I'm a pretty good sleeper, better then than I am now, but I'm a pretty good sleeper in general, and I just felt like at a certain point I wasn't getting more information. It was like

Whitney: Well, that's the thing. I know I know with

Amy: It was like, "I'm getting such good sleep scores, so I'm done here."

Whitney: Right. I don't need to know my sleep I guess it would be interesting to know if I'm actually getting any deep, REM sleep.

Amy: That part is very interesting. I like to see how much deep and REM sleep, but now I don't know, a it knows. He, she, it. Anyway, so, you know, the app is pretty interesting because it is it has expanded since 2018 or whenever I had mine, 2019. And so I saw a friend open it up, and it had so much more data. It could tell your resilience, your stress, your your ready

Whitney: But how does it know?

I mean, "it," he,

Yeah, tell me some of your information.

Your resilience? What do you mean by that?

Amy: I know. It needs 90 days of data to start tell telling me my resilience. So it can monitor your your stress levels. Like, we watched something scary the other day, and I saw little spikes in my stress, and I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." So like, it can really track, you know, what your stress level is like, and incorporate that with how ready you are for the day through your sleep and through your heart rate, and then tell you,

Whitney: Uh-huh, cortisol.

Oh.

Amy: are you able to bounce back really well? And so like, that's pretty fucking cool.

Whitney: Right.

Yeah, that's very cool.

Amy: Then it also can track things like you can you can let it know if you have night sweats like I do and things like that. So I'm kind of popping those in when I have night sweats because I'm still having

Whitney: What about food-related stuff, like glucose and stuff? I mean, if it's got your if it's on your finger

Amy: It's not tracking it here, but they offer a glucose monitor that you can order and incorporate, and I just haven't done it.

Whitney: I don't want it.

Amy: I don't know that I do, either. So I'm just trying to watch my

Whitney: Sugar?

Amy: I I have noticed that I sleep different if I eat anything, you know, after 7:00, 8:00 p.m. And I'm like,

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: "Oh." That and that's my time that I sometimes, if I haven't eat had enough protein during the day, I will eat whatever the fuck at night.

Whitney: The chips.

Amy: Chips, whatever, and Cookie dough. I'll just root around.

And yeah. And so I am so glad because it's like showing me actual results, so that is huge one. So I'm I'm so much better about eating at in the evening. And last night, Justin wanted to watch a movie. I knew he was tired, I was tired, and I was like, "What if we just go to bed?" And we went to bed at like 9:30. I was so proud of us. I mean,

Whitney: It yeah.

Yeah.

Amy: and I tossed and turned because I wasn't feeling well still, and he was kind of not feeling well and he snored a little. He did doesn't usually. And and so I feel like I tossed and turned, and then I got an amazing sleep score of an 87. And I'm like, "Well, that's all!"

Whitney: Oh.

But let me ask you this. When you woke up

Whitney: Did you feel like you slept well?

Amy: No, I want to stay in bed for three hours.

Whitney: Well, that's what's interesting.

Amy: And I got an 87. My total sleep, so it it'll tell you your sleep debt as well. And so I'm not operating on any sleep debt right now, so it's like It's like, tells you, one thing I don't like it is if you're reading in bed or watching TV in bed, it'll like, think you're laying in bed. I don't know how it knows. So you have to I take my ring off if I'm reading and put it right back on before I turn off the lights.

Whitney: Oh. That's weird. So but sitting on the couch, laying on the couch it doesn't do it?

Amy: It doesn't.

Whitney: That is so bizarre.

Amy: It's so weird. I don't know how it knows.

Whitney: How much was How much are they typically? Do you know?

Amy: This one's like $400, I want to say, and it was my Mother's Day gift. And so, I really tossed and turned last night. So you can see, I was wake

Whitney: Are those the tossing and turning?

Amy: Yeah. Those are the times I like got up and peed last night, I'm going to try to show it on there, and I tried to show it on the screen. So there's a lot of wakefulness and that's unusual for me.

Whitney: But you still got an 87.

Amy: Somehow, I still got a fucking 87. But anyway, I am actually really, really liking it. I look forward to it every day. I am learning stuff.

Whitney: All right. Cuz you're a You're like a fact junkie. You're like, what are the statistics? What is the number? What is the what is the graph say?

Amy: Is that the Virgo in me? I think it is. I think very much so. I I I love just like looking at the data and seeing what's happening. So anyway, I would say though it is getting me into some better habits. So

Whitney: Okay, that's good.

Amy: I recommend it. I'm liking the like expansiveness of it. But I do want to say that I read something about these big companies knowing too much about you and pre-existing conditions. So be careful what you enter into it. I am not entering like, I've had a cold, I'm not entering that in there. And I I might should, but I don't even want it to know.

Whitney: That's the way of the world now man. What do you think they're going to do with the information that you had a cold?

Amy: I don't know, but I don't like it. And like we got to just just be careful.

Whitney: Do you think Yeah, be careful with our information, cuz we're just willy-nilly with it. I just agree, agree, agree. On anything, I'm just like, "Okay, I'll agree."

Amy: I finally gave in. I agreed to the TikTok. I agreed to it. I was like, "Oh, well, everybody else is doing it, so fuck it." And I did. I agreed. So now, it knows everything.

Whitney: Oh, you did? Right. Well, even like you said, you're not using the the the AI stuff very often, but I I took pictures of my legs today and I was like, "What can I do about these dark spots?" And then I'm like, you know, this these are all my blood test results. Like I put I've been putting everything in, so they're basically going to clone me soon, I'm sure.

Amy: I'm trying to do it more. Oh, boy. Oh, shit. They know everything about your ass.

Whitney: They do, everything about my ass.

Amy: Oh, only good. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, though, that's that's what's happening. They would know it probably without because I'm sure I've approved something on my computer where it sees literally fucking everything, so.

Whitney: And my, everything. That's so stressful. Anyway,

Amy: All right. Don't get too stressed.

Whitney: All right. They Okay.

Amy: Not like our stress level cortisol, Oura Ring go up.

Whitney: All right. One more. Do I have time to ask one more question? Because I know you've got a lot of information.

Amy: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, I do.

Whitney: You got eyelashes.

Amy: I did. I got eyelashes.

Whitney: And so?

Amy: They've come a long way.

Whitney: Tell me about your experience because I am a love-hate. I hate to sit there for an hour, but I like

Amy: I fell asleep, I snored. But I ha- they gave me the B-team on the first round. She was like not great, she felt like she was stabbing me.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, you're not supposed to be in pain.

Amy: I had them way back, like this is like the Oura Ring, right? Like I came back to it. I had it over a decade ago and I didn't really like it, and I've always felt like it was caterpillars on my eyes, and then I hate a flare, and I didn't realize I had options. And now I'm like, oh, I have options, and so I like it. I like it. This is my second time. They look really nice, right? They look really nice.

Whitney: Yeah. Yes. I think they look good. Yeah.

Whitney: What I love about it is that I don't have to put on I obviously I put mascara on the bottom, but I don't have to think about it like

Amy: Use their special mascara?

Whitney: No, on the bottom. I don't do it on the fake lashes, just on my bottom real lashes. But but you do so well with your strips of fake lashes that I was like what is the draw for you? Like why do you like them?

Amy: Okay. I know. This is this is easier. I like it I like it cuz I don't have to do that now, and I felt like I was sort of like just stuck in always gluing them on and I thought I looked better when I filmed stuff, when I filmed my content, when I filmed this, and so now, I'm like, you know what, this feels freeing for summer. So I'm kind of excited.

Whitney: You can say For summer.

Amy: We're just trying it out. I'm going to try fans next time.

Whitney: Oh, you are?

Amy: Mhm.

Whitney: But that's going to be caterpillars.

Amy: It is?

Whitney: I think.

Amy: Oh, well then, fuck it. I won't do it.

Whitney: Hmm, I don't know. That's what I assume when I see the girls out there and I'm like, I know those are not real.

Amy: Oh, maybe I don't want that. Maybe I don't.

Whitney: I don't know. No, I think you should try it and then I'll see what they look like.

Amy: All right. I'll give it a try. They said if you don't like it, we'll just take him off, and I was like, "Okay." So, anyway. All right.

Whitney: Try it. Yeah. Okay, good. All right.

Amy: So, anyway, I was just thrilled that I had someone today that didn't hurt me, and then I was like, oh, and she did a better job, so.

Whitney: Did you Did you fall asleep today, too?

Amy: No, this Last time, I didn't fall asleep, she was stabbing me.

Whitney: Oh, cuz you couldn't, oh, right.

Amy: So, yes, I fell asleep. I snored. It was great.

Whitney: I did this weird thing last time.

Amy: What'd you do?

Whitney: I'm I'm kind of falling asleep, and I don't know why, but one side one lip was like,

Whitney: And it kept happening and I was like, "Shit, this is so embarrassing."

Whitney: I know, exactly. Like, a little Three Stooges. I'm like, "Oh, my gosh. It just kept happening."

Amy: We do funny things when we're falling asleep. I actually asked her today, I was like, "I'm a twitcher when I fall asleep and I'll twitch." And I was like, "What if I twitch, are you going to stab me in the eye basically?" And she was like, "No. I can see it coming. People twitch all the time. I got you." And I was like, "Oh, all right."

Whitney: "I can see it coming." I'm sure she had not had anyone do the the Three Stooges. Yeah.

Amy: That's great. That's hilarious. It's like you're joking. It's like you're making a comic

Whitney: Yeah, it was very embarrassing and it kept happening. Anyway,

Amy: Okay. So we're going to get into testosterone today. This is part two of HRT and hormones. We did estrogen last time. We're skipping each week because you're doing a series as well.

Whitney: Yes. I'm also doing a series.

Amy: So this is super fun. We're doing hormones and and internal work, and I'm really nervous about this one because

Whitney: Yes. It's a lot.

Amy: It's a lot. I'm nervous about these all together. And so, there may be things I miss, of course we're not doctors.

Whitney: I was going to say.

Amy: And we're doing our best, so if I miss something, I apologize, I'm trying. So I pulled this from research on the internet, and then also I did a show this year with Shalin Shah

Whitney: Yes, that's right.

Amy: that was excellent about testosterone, and he is the CEO of Marius Pharmaceuticals and they've come out with the first like oral testosterone, and it's only FDA approved for men right now. And we'll talk Of course.

Whitney: Of course.

Amy: Of course, but he might have told me when we wrapped recording that

Whitney: That women could take it, too.

Amy: And he knows women that are taking this, and it's amazing. So he was like, "Hit me up," and I haven't hit him up, so I think I'm going to.

Whitney: Oh. Can you hit him up for me, too?

Amy: Yeah, I sure can.

Whitney: Although, I'm not sure about pills cuz I feel like I'm not absorbing it in the right way, I need to

Amy: Well, I think testosterone is different than estrogen,

Whitney: Oh, okay.

Amy: the reasons, which I'm going to try to cover.

Whitney: Yeah, let's get into it, girl.

Amy: So, yeah, so I took a little extra time on this preparing it because I'm just still I still feel a little disjointed, so I apologize in advance, but I'm going to do my best.

Whitney: You're going to do great.

Amy: I also pulled from a specific episode of Ben Greenfield with a doctor named Amy, let me find her name. Her name was Dr. Amy Horniman, and she talked specifically about testosterone for women.

Whitney: Oh, okay, good.

Amy: So we've got those two episodes plus Cleveland Clinic and some other educating websites. So I will try We We always say we're going to include it in the show notes and then I forget, so we're trying to include it in the show notes. So that's my plan. Okay. So what is testosterone? Let's start there.

Whitney: All right.

Amy: It's a hormone produced mainly by the gonads, which ovaries are. Surprise.

Whitney: What?

Amy: Do you have gonads? I know.

Whitney: I thought gonads were nuts. I mean like, a man's testicles.

Amy: They are. They are, testicles and ovaries.

Whitney: Gonads are real, I thought it was just slang.

Amy: I did, too. That's crazy. At least that's what I have here in my research. They're also it's produced in smaller amounts by the adrenal glands via DHEA, which we're going to do in two weeks. It is the primary androgen. Andro that it it cues you to think about male characteristics, right? So it's a hormone responsible for developing male characteristics, but it's also the most abundant sex hormone in women's bodies. The 10 times more than estradiol in women. Trippy, right?

Whitney: Wow.

Amy: I know. Natural testosterone is technically a steroid, an anabolic androgenic androgenic androgen anyway, anabolic steroid. Anabolic means muscle building, which we've heard before. Androgenic genic means male sex characteristics. When people say anabolic steroids, they typically mean synthetic versions made in a lab, like the things that bulk dudes up and make them all angry.

Whitney: Yes. Yes.

Amy: Testosterone receptors exist on almost every organ in the body, meaning it works at a deep cellular level far beyond just sex drive. That is something Shalin Shah was telling me about too on the episode. He compares it to a blood pressure or like cholesterol pill because it's he says it's foundational to our metabolic health, and it affects our inflammation, our glucose sensitivity, and our fat metabolism. So it's really, really important.

Whitney: Yeah, I I knew that it was, but I thought it was more important for men.

Amy: No, apparently, it's for everyone.

Whitney: But that's not true. Yeah, if every organ has it.

Amy: And so, yeah, they're trying to make He He in particular was working on a panel with the government to try to get the FDA to pay attention to it more for women, but of course it's an fucking uphill battle for us, just like everything else. All right, let's talk a little bit about the history of it before we get into it. Its therapeutic potential was first recognized in the late 1800s when scientists connected the testes to male vitality, and by 1935, the hormone had been isolated, named, and synthesized from cholesterol, which we talked about with estrogen, too. Early clinical use in the late 1930s and '40s showed promising benefits for libido, mood, energy, and even heart conditions. A landmark 1941 study though linked testosterone to prostate cancer, which was upsetting for everyone, and it it cast a shadow over the therapy for more than seven decades, leaving physicians too hesitant to prescribe it. But in the 1970s, we moved into a more modern interpretation of it and study of it. The invention of accurate blood testing shifted the diagnosis away from clinical symptoms toward lab numbers, as we do now. By 2006, 2009 uh or to 2009, researchers introduced the saturation model, which debunked the prostate cancer myth and once androgen receptors are full, more testosterone does not fuel cancer growth, which is what they had thought.

Whitney: Okay, that's good news.

Amy: Yeah. A 2013 study claiming cardiovascular risk was later discredited for data errors. So they're just all over the fucking place. Look at what they did with estrogen.

Whitney: No, I know. But it also makes you just realize, look, you think it's accurate, but then a study comes back later and they're like, "No, it's poison," and then they come back later and go, "Never mind."

Amy: "Just kidding. Oops." So, yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. That's just something that whenever whatever you're trying, whatever we're trying, regardless of what the studies say, be aware of how you're feeling on it. Because

Amy: Yeah. And just don't let fear get the best of you because there are mistakes being made, too. The 2016 testosterone trials confirmed what doctors already knew in the 1940s that therapy benefits libido, mood, bone density, even

Whitney: So, it could be wrong.

Amy: from it. By 2015, an international expert consensus concluded that testosterone deficiency is a serious global health problem, that therapy does not increase the risk of prostate cancer or heart disease, and may actually protect the heart, especially in men with obesity or diabetes. Okay? So, testosterone levels have been declining in both men and women for decades. In my episode with Shalin Shah, he identified three main culprits.

Whitney: Okay, good. I was wanting to ask why.

Amy: I know. It's confusing. Number one, environmental toxins.

Whitney: Of course.

Amy: Guess what? Good old microplastics. Those little those little culprits. Endocrine disruptors, which we know we're spraying shit all over us all the time.

Whitney: Yeah. Even your clothes, your mascara, like all It's everywhere.

Amy: It's so It's everywhere. worrisome for like our kids and stuff. And other chemicals interfere with hormone production. Number two, sleep disruption. Hormones are primarily produced during sleep. So, there's another case for Oura Ring. I wonder if they'll get into better like hormone thing. Remember that Remember in biohack or whack, when you were talking about that mirror?

Whitney: Yes. Yes.

Amy: You were talking about a mirror that's going to be able to read our hormone levels. That's freaking crazy.

Whitney: That's crazy. I know.

Amy: Yes. So anyway, hormones are primarily produced during sleep. Modern device use, like our phones being next to us, and light pollution have severely impacted these natural rhythms.

Whitney: Yeah, I mean think about it. Even my printer I was thinking about this yesterday. My printer is in my bedroom and it has a little light.

Amy: Your printer's in your bedroom? Where else is it going to be? Well, you have a pretty big house.

Whitney: But I don't have an office.

Amy: You could make one. Well, for now I will go to your house and tell you where an office can be.

Whitney: For now, I know, I need to My bedroom is a disaster. For now, my I've got my printer in there, I've got my phone in there, and then even your digital alarm, you know, clock.

Amy: Yeah. Like it's not good. You have a digital alarm clock?

Whitney: Well, you know, it's not an alarm clock I mean it is an alarm clock. Yeah, a clock, you know.

Amy: No. What do you mean? You mean like on your TV?

Whitney: Like a digital clock No, like a clock. Like a

Amy: Oh, I don't have one of those.

Whitney: an old school but it's not old school because it's it's gets its information from satellite. So if the power goes out, and then it comes back on, it it finds the time and

Amy: We should be able to Oh. You should be able to dim that. Or dim it way down.

Whitney: Do I even need it? Although I do.

Amy: You don't. Well,

Whitney: I do because I otherwise I will look at my phone to see what time it Is it Oh, it's only 2:00 a.m. What Oh, it's 3:00 a.m. Oh, it's 5:30 a.m.

Amy: You do that?

Whitney: Sometimes. You don't do that?

Amy: Okay, we're going to cover something No, because I don't keep a clock where I can see it. They say that's not a good thing to do.

Whitney: But if you wake up in the middle of the night, don't you want to know how much time is left?

Amy: But if you didn't do that, maybe you're going to have better hormones.

Whitney: All right.

Amy: I think you should get rid of that clock. And here's what I do. I set my white noise to stop at a certain time that I is the latest I want to wake up by. So if I hear my my my white noise turning off will wake me up. And so I know that like when I hear it go down, I'm like, "Oh, it's 8:00 or that's the latest I want to get up." But usually it's like 7:00 or whatever. So that's what I do, and I try not to look at my clock at night. They say that's bad.

Whitney: Oh, wow. You have your sound Yeah. Okay. All right, printer and clock out of there.

Amy: And then there's also these little black-out stickers that you can buy. So they're tiny. In fact, I have some. I'll give them to you. And you can just stick those over anything that's lit up, your smoke detector or whatever it is, that's a disruptive light.

Whitney: We really should put red light bulbs in our room.

Amy: Well, yeah, but then it's a fucking bordello no matter what. I know. We've tried and then I was like, "I need lights.

Whitney: I know. Yeah.

Amy: I can't do this."

Whitney: So

Amy: I can't do this. Okay. The third thing is lifestyle and metabolic health. Testosterone deficiency is co-morbid and bidirectional with obesity and type 2 diabetes. They feed each other.

Whitney: Mm.

Amy: So that's a problem. Okay. So let's talk just briefly about men, because we're here for women, really. So I'm just going to condense this little little blurb down about men, okay? It's essential for male development. We know that. Sperm con- production, red blood cell production, bone and muscle maintenance, libido, and mood. Levels peak for men in their late teens and early 20s, and naturally decline with age. Normal adult male range is about 193 to 824. And this is measured in something called ng/dL, but we're just going to say the numbers, okay?

Whitney: Yeah. Sorry men. Right. That's a huge range.

Amy: span. I know. And did you watch that Charlie Sheen

Whitney: Yes, and he was like I can't even remember what it was.

Amy: 4,000 It was something crazy.

Whitney: And was that because of all of the crack that he was doing? I was confused by why his testosterone

Amy: I think he was taking testosterone, too. Yeah. I can't believe he's alive.

Whitney: Oh. I can't either. I really like him. It was such a good documentary.

Amy: It was a great doc. He was so likeable.

Whitney: He was so likeable.

Amy: He was so likeable. We love some Charlie. Okay. So then some men can get something called hypogonadism, late-onset hypogonadism.

Whitney: Who came up with that name? It's a terrible name. Gonadism.

Amy: And men over 40 can get this. It's linked to aging, obesity, and type 2 diabetes. And that I think that means that it's declining. Hypo means like less, right? Symptoms of low T in men, muscle loss, increased body fat, depressed mood, fatigue, erectile dysfunction, low libido, osteoporosis, difficulty concentrating. Okay, we're done there.

Whitney: Okay, done with the men.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah.

Whitney: But there's a decreasing, too.

Amy: My first draft of this had like two pages on men, and I was like, "That's not going to work."

Whitney: It's time. But it is nice, I mean, I hate to say it like this, but it's nice to know that it's decreasing in men, too. Like

Amy: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Whitney: it's an it's an age-related thing. Like

Amy: And very much I think environmentally triggered as well. So like that is it's very common.

Whitney: Men in pioneer days had erec- hard erections for their entire lives.

Amy: Did you read that book, Yesteryear?

Whitney: Yes, did you read it?

Amy: Yes.

Whitney: I was disturbed.

Amy: It's disturbing.

Whitney: That is so funny that you said that. I did.

Amy: Everybody read it.

Amy: All the twists at the end.

Whitney: It is so bizarre, but that is exactly why I said it. That is so funny.

Amy: It is good. Yeah. Well, actually chopping wood does raise testosterone.

Whitney: No way. So even just the pretend just the movement of it?

Amy: It actually I don't know. I think you've got to actually chop some wood. It's probably being in nature.

Whitney: I bet just the exercise. To get wood you've got to chop the wood.

Amy: Yeah, you're Being in nature. I didn't even think of that. Yes. Okay, so let's talk about it with women, cuz that's what we're here for, right? There is currently no FDA-approved testosterone product for women.

Whitney: Yes, please. I know this because I got on testosterone and didn't want to do the compound because it was three times as expensive. And she just gave me the men version.

Amy: I mean, it's all off-label.

Whitney: And she's like, "We're just going to play around with it."

Amy: That's what we're doing. It's the fucking Wild West.

Whitney: It is. So terrible.

Amy: Okay, so like I said, I'm I'm not like plugging Shalin Shah's company Marius Pharmaceuticals, but they're he's actively working to change this, and I thought his I thought that episode was so fucking good. I'm definitely linking that. I highly recommend people listen to it, because it was just so interesting about the progress that's being made now, and like the all the regulations, and we talked more about that.

Whitney: There's some information. Okay. Mm-hmm.

Amy: So let's just get into some of the science of it for women. Testosterone is the most abundant hormone in women's bodies, as I said, 10 times more than estradiol.

Whitney: Uh-huh. Yeah.

Amy: It's the first hormone to decline, beginning in our 30s to 40s, which further drops in perimenopause and menopause. So it's just bullshit that we're having to fight to get it, and it's all off-label. It's that I do not understand. Women use testosterone for just like men: libido, bone density, muscle mass, mood, cognitive function function, and metabolic health. Symptoms of low testosterone in women include brain fog and memory issues. I'm looking at you. Stropp. Low motivation and fatigue,

Whitney: Looking at me. Yep.

Amy: low libido and sexual dysfunction, muscle loss and fat gain, mood changes and depression, vaginal dryness, pain during sex, and vaginal atrophy. I mean, it's kind of like such a, you know, stew of symptoms, too, though, because I feel like those are all perimenopause symptoms and so much of it is tied to low testosterone.

Whitney: Yeah, it is.

Amy: What's scary though is you when you start playing around with it, it can go bad quickly, like you can have too much and then you've got hair growth and anger issues. And, you know, hopefully they're going to do hopefully they're going to do right by women soon, because it is an experiment that is not fun to be a part of. Oh. Yeah. I know. I know. It's so Well, we are going to cover some ways you can naturally help boost it, too. So,

Whitney: Okay. Pumpkin seeds.

Amy: I I also want to make a note Yeah, you know what? I I do eat pumpkin seeds every single day. I love them.

Whitney: I know, and after that episode, I went and bought some pumpkin seeds and I put them in my console of my car, cuz when I'm driving around, and I totally forgot about them until like two weeks ago. And I got in there and I was like, "Oh.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: Mmh, probably should throw these away."

Amy: They're probably expired now.

Whitney: Yes, but

Amy: Yes, but

Whitney: They have to be out in front of so I can see. Otherwise, I forget. But

Amy: Yes. I mean, I I forgot about them, and then I was like, "Oh my god, I love these." And so like, I've been just eating so healthy cuz I'll make like roasted veggies and scrambled tofu, and then I'll just toast some, keep them toasted in my pantry, and then I scatter some toasted pumpkin seeds on there.

Whitney: That's so good.

Amy: It's so good. Then I add some of your favorite nutritional yeast.

Whitney: Oh, the yeast.

Amy: I love nutritional yeast.

Whitney: You can take it.

Amy: All right, back to this. Side note, low thyroid mimics low testosterone symptoms, so check both, and testosterone may actually lower thyroid antibodies and be protective against Hashimoto's. So that basically means if your testosterone if you have good testosterone, it can prevent these things. So that's really good.

Whitney: Oh. Okay. Wow. Yeah.

Amy: This is so intricate. All, I mean, everything It's all connected.

Whitney: It's all connected, and it's so precise when your body is doing it naturally, and then it's just a fucking free-for-all when we're trying to figure out how to do it exactly like the body does it naturally. It's so hard.

Amy: I know. I know.

Whitney: It's so hard.

Amy: And and the thing is, it's so

Whitney: Or it's not hard and that's why

Amy: It's overwhelming information and that's why I feel like we're sitting here in our mid-50s and I'm like, "Why don't I know about this?" You know, I guess cuz it's overwhelming.

Whitney: Yeah. Nobody was Well, no one was talking about it, and then people who were talking about it, you did were so With With With the internet and everything, we're have access to information and studies, and people, you know, know more now because of that, I feel like.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, but then it just gets overwhelming or something. Anyway,

Whitney: Totally overwhelming.

Amy: all right, so I'm trying to make it less overwhelming. So testing for women, this is probably going to get a little overwhelming, so I'm going to do my best. So of course, we prefer a blood test, right? And it can be done any time of the month, unlike estrogen or progesterone. Your testosterone levels aren't going to be as cyclical and fluctuate. Thank you, that's the word I was looking for.

Whitney: Yes. Fluctuating. Okay.

Amy: As your female stuff. Anyway, testing for both total and free testosterone. Free is the more accurate indicator of how it's affecting your health.

Whitney: Okay, good to know, cuz I see those on my tests and I always get confused.

Amy: Free. Free. Free.

Whitney: That's which one.

Amy: Most labs cut off the female range at 48, which means a woman at 10 can be told that she's normal. Now, I don't really understand that sentence, but this is a problem. So, optimal female number: 50 plus.

Whitney: Mmm.

Amy: Okay, so that's what we want.

Whitney: It makes me want to look up mine.

Amy: I'm going to get my labs done tomorrow, so I'm pretty excited about that.

Whitney: Oh, good.

Amy: I know, since my decline in February.

Whitney: Yeah. Decline.

Amy: Hi! Okay. Levels naturally pink, and peak in a woman's 20s, pink! Peak in a woman's 20s and decline 1 to 3% per year. During perimenopause, levels can be inconsistent, and, so you have to test multiple times. So I don't know why they just told me it's not cyclical, but it can still fluctuate. So, anyway, just check it all. Normal ranges, like I said, are going to be 50, it's all over the place. Even when I tried to corral all of this, it's still a little all over the place. But basically, that Dr. Amy Horniman recommends aiming at 50 and up total T for optimal function.

Whitney: Total T, okay.

Amy: Total T. Okay?

Whitney: While you're talking about it, I'm going to look mine up and see what Function Health says about it.

Amy: Oh, all right, great.

Whitney: What their range is.

Amy: SHBG problem. So, most testosterone in the blood is bound to proteins, primarily the sex hormone-binding globulin. I hate the word globulin.

Whitney: Globulin.

Amy: It sounds like the little green guy on Ghostbusters, the globulin.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, yeah.

Amy: Okay, SHBG for short. And that, when it binds to proteins, it's unusable. This is important. This is available in your blood test, and it gets missed. So, total testosterone is all the testosterone in your blood, including the bound stuff that I just mentioned. It can look normal, and the free T is low. So that's not, we don't want that.

Whitney: No.

Amy: So, free testosterone means it is not bound. That's what that means.

Whitney: That's why it's free. Okay.

Amy: That's why it's free! It's active testosterone available for the body to use, which is the more meaningful number. Bioavailable testosterone is free and free testosterone plus testosterone loosely bound. Okay?

Whitney: So there's no bounds,

Amy: So, there's bound and then there's loosely bound.

Whitney: and then there's loose bounds, and it's all related to the sex hormone.

Amy: Historic birth control can permanently elevate your sex hormone-binding globulin, right? This binding thing, levels, and that locks up your testosterone and leads to deficiency symptoms later in life. How fucked is that?

Whitney: Oh, it's so fucked.

Amy: Are you listening?

Whitney: I am listening.

Amy: Okay, good. Have you got your number?

Whitney: Yeah, but it doesn't make sense, because the numbers seem different than the ones that you're saying.

Amy: What are they?

Whitney: Well, mine is in range right now, but it says 1.5 pg/mL.

Amy: Fucking A.

Whitney: And then, but two two blood tests ago, it was high at 25. That's when I was growing hair everywhere, and losing, I was growing hair here and losing hair on my head, because testosterone fucks with your hair like that. And that's why I had why I had the baby wigs in the shower.

Amy: That's what it does. That's right.

Whitney: Cuz I my testosterone, free testosterone, was 25.

Amy: It might be what's happening to me. I don't know. I feel like I'm just constantly sprouting hairs all over my chin.

Whitney: But I don't understand that numbers don't It's Anyway. I'm going to just put that down.

Amy: I'm so sorry. I don't know what to say.

Whitney: It's okay. The good news is, at least in my test results, they're saying I'm in range now, so.

Amy: Well, that's good.

Whitney: That's good, I guess.

Amy: Trust but verify, I say to that.

Whitney: And you're going tomorrow, and you're going to get your hormones tested? Okay.

Amy: I am, I am. And I could look mine up and see what they've been, but I I don't fucking know. Okay, we're doing our best here. And so, you know what? Next time, I'm going to try to translate these on our progesterone episode next week. And so, or not next week, in two weeks. So, I'm going to try to decipher that for you.

Whitney: Okay. Well, but it's, you know, I mean you're you're deciphering it now. It's just everybody is using different measurements, I guess. I don't know.

Amy: Damn, I thought I was doing good. Okay, anyway.

Whitney: You are.

Amy: Sorry everybody, but I'm going to work on this. So, let's see, that's about birth birth control. Oral estrogen pills also raise SHBG, fucking A, because they're processed through the liver, right? Estrogen patches, gels, creams do not have this effect. So, the oral testosterone that Shalin Shah talks about, it's called Kyzatrex, specifically helps modulate and lower SHBG, which unlocks more free testosterone,

Whitney: Yeah. Okay.

Amy: which is pretty cool.

Whitney: That's good.

Amy: Yeah. So I am concerned about that in the living room, because I'm taking oral estrogen.

Whitney: And that's available? Well, that's the thing.

Amy: And that's available, yes.

Whitney: I I'm going to talk I need to get in touch with my doctor and have a conversation, because, yeah, I think my absorption rate is changing with, and so now I'm getting little hot flashes and stuff, even though I'm on HRT. I think the testosterone is weird. I'm doing the cream.

Amy: Me too.

Whitney: So maybe I need to do the patch again, but I don't know. It's exhausting.

Amy: Low testosterone symptoms in women can also be caused by estrogen dominance, even with normal or low estrogen levels. It's about the ratio, so you want like and then we're getting into progesterone and high estrogen levels that block testosterone's effect at the cellular level, which can cause brain fog even with normal testosterone levels, which is so frustrating, right? So, if you don't have the other ones dialed in, it's basically what I'm saying, if you don't have the other ones dialed in, like what you're talking about right now,

Whitney: Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: then it's blocking it, and that's so frustrating.

Whitney: That's why it it's so important to get the right doctor, because you almost, it's very frustrating, but you almost need to have a specialized hormone doctor, which by the way, I have now, but it's in the same group as my OBGYN. And sometimes I feel like I have more information than she does, even though she's listed as the hormone specialist.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: Well if you remember, she didn't have me you know, her or I should say her PA was like, "Well, we don't test again, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, blah, blah, blah." Anyway, I don't know, man.

Amy: Interesting. Well, this says the fix isn't always lowering estrogen, it's sometimes raising progesterone, which you're taking a lot.

Whitney: I am taking a lot.

Amy: So, I followed your lead and upped my I doubled mine, and now I'm having having night sweats. Yeah.

Whitney: Just on your own?

Amy: Just on my own. This is a wild West.

Whitney: You do what you want.

Amy: Then I start having night sweats again, and

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: now I'm so confused, so I don't know what to do.

Whitney: Cuz I didn't think that, well, and when you talk about progesterone we'll find out, but I didn't think that had I thought it was all estrogen. The night sweats were estrogen, lack of.

Amy: Oh, really? Oh, I didn't know that.

Whitney: No, I don't know. That's just what I thought.

Amy: Oh, okay. I don't know either. All right, all right.

Whitney: Oh, that's interesting. So you went up to 200 mg and started getting night sweats, and that's the only thing you changed?

Amy: But I, that could be unrelated. Who knows?

Whitney: How were your dreams, still vivid?

Amy: No, my dreams have gone, they're gone. So I don't know.

Whitney: Huh.

Amy: I know. All right. So, let's talk a little bit more about sexual health, too. Systemic testosterone improves vaginal lubrication, arousal, desire, and orgasm quality. That's true, right? When I use the the topical.

Whitney: Yeah. But are you just putting it on your thigh or are you Okay.

Amy: Yep. Just on my thigh. Many women avoid sex in perimenopause and menopause due to pain from vaginal atrophy. Testosterone directly addresses this. Yes! Fix that!

Whitney: Yeah, I'm so glad I've never had that, but I have friends where it's very, very painful. Tough sex.

Amy: I know. Oh, I know. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Topical testosterone applied genitally can help, but should be used cautiously because regular lu- use can cause clitoral enlargement.

Whitney: Well, ooh. Okay. Good to know. That that's why I asked if you're just putting it on your thigh.

Amy: Yeah. Yes, just my thigh. Compounded DHEA cream applied vaginally is a safer alternative for lubrication and engorgement, which we are going to do an episode on DHEA.

Whitney: Okay, good. And engorgement.

Amy: So, if you want more testosterone Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, this

Whitney: I want to do a whole Actually, I was thinking we need to just do a whole one on just like sex and sexual Anything But Mid sex.

Amy: Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do. We do, absolutely do. Okay, so injectable, we have some different treatments. Injectable testosterone, have you ever tried that?

Whitney: Okay. No, that scares me, which is hilarious, because I'll inject anything. But for some reason, that just especially because I lost my hair, and then I was growing a beard, and I feel like I've settled, finally.

Amy: Well, this, according to Shalin, he said it was like drinking 10 cups of coffee for the whole week on Monday. You know, he was like, He said it's too much, and too hard to regulate, especially for women.

Whitney: It's too much. He likes the pill that he's got.

Amy: He likes the pill. Yeah. So, then creams or topicals, right? Absorption can be inconsistent and there is, of course, the risk of transference to your clothes, or wiping it off.

Whitney: Yeah. Well, and how do you know? Like, they just say, "Oh, do two clicks." So, I'll do the two clicks, and then I'll smear it on, but, yeah, some of it's still on the It's just like you don't know, and then the gel that I just got that wasn't compound cream, just the gel part,

Amy: I know. No. Uh-huh.

Whitney: same thing.

Amy: You're always doing everything. Oh, my god.

Whitney: Dude, I've got the gel. I've got the cream. Maybe I need the pills, but I feel like the pills are harder to know for sure what you're getting, because you really need to know what your absorption rate is, apparently.

Amy: God.

Whitney: Another thing we have to figure out.

Amy: Yeah. Pellets, good for men, not recommended for women due to inability to adjust dose once inserted. The dosing is too cookie-cutter and can spike your levels with no way to adjust. Oxandrolone, that is an oral one, women who can't tolerate regular testosterone and need extra muscle and bone protein. It's sublingual, and I'm a little unclear. It was called the girly steroid, because it's actually something that produces anabolic like effects, so I don't think it's actually testosterone. It's something that makes you produce more testosterone, so I'm a little unclear.

Whitney: And you put it under your tongue, like a little drop?

Amy: I think so. I think so. So, vaginal and topical DHEA can help compounded, you know, affects vaginal atrophy, but it's not exactly testosterone. So, then we've got the oral Kyzatrex. So, that is the first FDA-approved oral option from Shalin's company, approved for men. Female approval is in development. Now, as I told you, he does know women that are taking it, and I am very curious. So, all right. So, I have a little bit of duplicate information here. I think that let's just talk a little bit about how you can do things that are going to naturally boost your testosterone,

Whitney: Okay. Chopping wood.

Amy: and Chopping Wood. Chopping Go chop some wood, who fucking cares?

Whitney: It's number one.

Amy: Shalin also said, you know, if you fix fatigue via some testosterone, like if you get it going, and rev up the engine, then it's a virtuous cycle, is what he called it. So, you have energy to exercise and eat better, which further improves your hormonal health. So, there are it it can naturally start to even out if we're doing all the things, right? Cuz then we have more energy for it.

Whitney: Right. Right.

Amy: So, heavy lifting, right? Lift weights. That is a big one. Are you lifting weights?

Whitney: Yeah. Are you?

Amy: Yes, absolutely. I love weight training.

Whitney: That's all I'm doing. Like, I used to just do Pilates and stuff. Now, at that Upgrade Labs, I'm just I'm lifting weights, yeah.

Amy: Good. Yeah. I like to lift weights. I don't lift as well as I used to, though. I've noticed that I'm I've definitely changed from a decade ago or whatever.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Sure.

Amy: Yeah. So, quality sleep, which, of course, working out helps that, helps you eat better, and then you're maybe taking in more protein. So, it's like all working together just like our body is. Sex. Have sex. That's going to actually help and increase your testosterone and your hormones.

Whitney: Really?

Amy: Yeah. And I

Whitney: Just gives your body a boost.

Amy: It does. Like, I think having orgasms and having sex does increase all those hormones, and keep things flowing. So, you know, use it or lose it. Use it or lose it, everyone. Sunlight. Sunlight is going to help with supporting testosterone. Stress reduction. Well, that helps, too, with this ring, my Oura Ring. So, I find it very interesting to reduce, to like, get a level on my stress. It's like, that's pretty cool. This does say cold plunge can help it, even for women, but we don't want to do that. I don't want to fucking

Whitney: I've, no. I'm a big no. I don't like cryo or the cold baths.

Amy: No. Mm-mm. So, me either. So, anyway, we do have some telehealth options, just like you and I are doing. So, they can still prescribe you testosterone off-label. So, you can get it.

Whitney: Well, and I did get testosterone from my OB-GYN.

Amy: Awesome.

Whitney: And, and it was covered by insurance. But it's the gel, which is just, it was so gross and sticky

Amy: Okay. Yeah.

Whitney: that I just said I'll pay out of pocket for a compound cream.

Amy: Good. Good, yeah.

Whitney: So that's what I did.

Amy: How much, do you remember? How much that cost?

Whitney: The compound cream?

Amy: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: Maybe like 65 or something, and it's two, for two months, though. So, it's actually not that expensive.

Amy: No, not that bad. I feel like mine was like kind of like that, too. I can't remember.

Whitney: But the gel was like five bucks or so.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: And it was this big bottle, but it was so gross. I have it if you want it.

Amy: It's so gross? Why?

Whitney: It's sticky.

Amy: Oh, gross.

Whitney: It's gro-, yeah.

Amy: I don't like that.

Whitney: No. It's

Amy: It's sticky?

Whitney: Yeah, it's a gel.

Amy: Can you mix it with lotion?

Whitney: Ew, no, I don't. I don't think so.

Amy: Oh, okay. So much for that.

Whitney: No, but the compound cream is great. It's creamy and everything. But the gel is, bleh.

Amy: Okay. Yeah, that's what I use. Or mine's sort of a I don't know what it is. I guess it's a cream. I don't know. All right. So, health risks of untreated deficiency. We're talking about cardiovascular disease, bone health,

Whitney: This is if you don't have enough.

Amy: all, if you don't have enough. He basically says it is, across the board, a crisis. Like, that we're having a testosterone crisis.

Whitney: Which is, ugh. Well, then why is the body stopping it? Why are my gonads not doing their job? But we did talk about the ovaries already. We've talked about that.

Amy: No, true. Right. Right, like, it's like a

Whitney: But it's just so baffling to me. I don't know.

Amy: But I think we have all these external factors, too, that we've got to watch out for.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah. Our food isn't real anymore. Our clothes have all kinds of disruptors,

Amy: Right. Right. Yes. Yes.

Whitney: perfumes, hair color.

Amy: I mean, I think I'm wearing synthetics right now, right?

Whitney: Yeah, I'm sure these eyelashes that we got going on are disrupting something.

Amy: Right. And then, I also just want to say also, if you're on any semaglutide or anything like that, you can lose more lean muscle mass. And so, without testosterone to protect your muscle, you could actually be increasing your risk, too, for a serious health crisis when you stop the medication. So, anyway, the net net of this is that it is an imperative part of everything. It is tied to everything, and yet confusing, and also ridiculous that it's being ignored for women. So, we are still going to stay on top of it and do our best to keep doing it. I would say, if you could get anything going and then feel better, start your virtuous cycle and start, you know, really lifting weights as you can. Push yourself to do those things that you know,

Whitney: Yeah. Chop some wood. Have sex.

Amy: go to bed, get rid of the light at night, right? Get more sunlight. All these things that are pretty foundational that we know are healthy, those are the things to do. And that is, that is what I keep concluding. Even when I talk to these experts on my show. So, I keep concluding that, like, the more time we can spend in nature, like, those types of things are actually really helping us get more healthy. And we keep searching for all these tests and all these ways, and so we've got to do those things, too. Not that we aren't going to supplement with HRT. Yes, we are, but

Whitney: Well, and I Right. But do the things that are free and that we know are are helpful. And

Amy: Yes. Yes. And to get the advantage of feeling better to do those things.

Whitney: Right. And I would encourage everybody to go talk to their doctor, go talk to your gynecologist, because they weren't, you know, I didn't realize at the time, cuz I would ask my friends, well, "Are you on testosterone?" And they'd say, "No." I didn't realize it was because they couldn't get it, you know. It wasn't, women weren't able to get it. I guess that's because, when I started doing testosterone, I was getting it through a function health doctor, functional medicine doctor. But now, I do think you can, if you just go talk to your gynecologist, because mine it was men's, you know, but I got the testosterone and could start using it. So,

Amy: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Whitney: I think that, in order to actually do true HRT, you need to be doing all of the hormones,

Amy: I think so, too.

Whitney: cuz your body naturally has them all.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah, and one of the most interesting things I thought in here, too, that I didn't know, was the thing about taking birth control way back when that were basically making it bind to ourselves, and then it's not as useable, like, long term. I mean, I've known that that uh, birth control causes problems, but damn.

Whitney: Mm-hmm. Well, my sister

Amy: I was on the pill for or I had an IUD. But I was on the pill for a long time.

Whitney: Oh, everyone was. I was on the pill from age 19 till

Amy: Right. 30?

Whitney: I don't know. I don't know. I guess I got off of it when I started Yeah, at 30, and then had some babies. But in the interim of babies, I would get back on the pill. My sister, who is 48, I think, has been on the pill probably since she was 19, and they're taking her off the pill now

Amy: Damn. Wow.

Whitney: to start her on some HRT stuff. She's premenopause. But she's not She's still having a period. I'm like, "Couldn't you get pregnant? Like,

Amy: Yeah, she I guess she could.

Whitney: you need to get on a You need to get an IUD or something."

Amy: Why doesn't her husband just get a vasectomy?

Whitney: Well, I don't know. Men don't like to touch their balls.

Amy: That's That's stupid. That's fucking stupid. My husband got one like when I was dealing I was like, "I want to get off this. I want the IUD out. I want to get off this." And he was like, "Oh, okay. I'll just go get a vasectomy." And so, he literally booked it like that day. I I couldn't believe it. He got it like two weeks later, and I was like,

Whitney: Yeah, that's so great.

Amy: "Why are more men not doing this?" It's kind of I get offended for women. Like, just

Whitney: Yeah, why are we the ones that have to handle everything? We got to birth the baby. We got to feed the baby. We got to, keep the baby awake.

Amy: Yeah. No, he really was like, I was like, "Man, this feels more than marriage." It was before we were married, and I was just like, I bet I didn't tell you that. Yeah.

Whitney: Oh, wow. No. He did it before you were married?

Amy: Yeah, I was like, "Are you," and he was 33 or 34, 34, and I was like, "Are you sure you want to do this?" And he was like, "Yeah." He was like, "I really don't think I want kids. Your kids are good with me. I'm good."

Whitney: Aw.

Amy: And I was like, "Wow." And so, he did. Yeah. And you know what? It was so helpful to me, like it took this weight of concern and worry about birth control off of me at 40 in my late 40 like your sister's age.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: And I was still having a period, and I was like

Whitney: That's true. I will, I will broach that subject with her, cuz I didn't What's sad is I didn't even think about it.

Amy: Yes. Please.

Whitney: That's what's really And neither did she. Yeah. We were just like, "Well,"

Amy: Yeah. I mean, my doctor had mentioned it as an option. She was like, "Well, I mean, he could get a vasectomy." And I was like, "Uh, I don't even think I should ask him. We're not married. He's 15 years younger than me. He was 34 at the time." And I was just like, "I don't I don't feel ri-," but I mentioned it. I just said, "Well, she did say you could get a vasectomy, but I I feel I don't expect you to at this age." And he was like, "No, I'll do it." And then he he booked it.

Whitney: Yeah. He did it.

Amy: Not only did he say he was going to do it, he actually did it.

Whitney: Like a month, by by a month later.

Amy: Yeah. He's a rock star.

Whitney: He is.

Amy: I was like, "Wow." I was like, "This is bigger than marriage, are you sure?"

Amy: Yeah, right.

Whitney: But it is It is retractable, refundable, reversible.

Amy: Yeah, it is reversible. Yeah. But, I mean, really,

Whitney: No.

Amy: men men And you know what? Everything's fine. Yeah. So, anyway, and I don't I don't know the data, but I don't think it affects their testosterone production. So,

Whitney: Yeah, I don't know.

Amy: yeah. So, in That's great.

Whitney: Good for him.

Amy: Yeah, so She should. Anyway, there it is. I hope I did a pretty thorough job. I feel like I learned some stuff. So,

Whitney: Yeah. I mean, just knowing that it's on, in every organ of the body. Like, I didn't know that. I kind of thought testosterone was the least important out of the hormones that I have. You kind of hear about estrogen all the time.

Amy: Yes, girl. Yeah.

Whitney: So, it's good to know.

Amy: Yeah, but we need this. I'm going to research, so on my next episode for progesterone, I'm going to research those levels and kind of tell you what that means cuz I want to know for my own blood work, so.

Whitney: Yeah. Well, when you go in to get your blood work, see if you can ask them.

Amy: I am. I am.

Whitney: All right, cool.

Amy: I am. So, yeah. So, okay.

Whitney: That's great.

Amy: There it is.

Whitney: Testosterone.

Amy: There it is. Phew.

Whitney: I know. Okay, everybody. I'm exhausted.

Amy: We love you. Email us if you have something to say. We want to know. I mean, like, if you have info on this, too, I'm curious. We would love to hear it. So, yeah. Yeah, hit us up anytime. anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail. And follow us everywhere. Share with a friend.

Whitney: Agreed, yeah. And always and forever, do you.

Amy: Yeah.