Estrogen: Hormone Series, Pt 1 of 5

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Whitney: I'm Whitney.

Amy: And I'm Amy. And it's midlife, but you're anything but mid.

Whitney: That's going in the outtakes and shit. Hello, and

Amy: Hello.

Whitney: how are you feeling?

Amy: Hello, and hello. Hello.

Whitney: Hello. I'm feeling fine. I'm in a funk these days. So, I have to practice what I preach. I need to

Amy: Same. I me, too. I had got in a funk yesterday, and I was like, maybe I just need sleep.

Whitney: I was like, maybe I just need more hormones. But I'm excited for our our topic today, because I have have had my own thoughts recently and experience, and I'm a little confused by what's going on. So,

Amy: Well, it's a confusing subject, and I you know, that's why I did it, too, cuz I feel like I don't know enough, and, you know, this is something that's so impactful to every aspect of our life, and we don't know anything. So,

Whitney: I know. And I feel I feel like it's I kind of assumed that you just get on your dose, and then it's smooth sailing. And it's funny, because my sister was here this past weekend, and she is like 47, 48. And so, she's in pre-menopause right now. But she also has 6-year-olds, so I keep forgetting how old she is, just cuz she's got these little kids. But she was saying, "Oh, I'm going to get my blood work done, and I'm going to get on some stuff. And then I'm just going to be back to my old self, because that is that what happens? You just feel great now?" And I was like, "Uh, no. Not not not really." And I will have moments of feeling great, and then something changes. I think maybe, I don't know, your hormones are dipping up and down or something, and so maybe the dose doesn't work the same forever and ever. I'm not sure.

Amy: Right. I don't know, either.

Whitney: Yeah. I I keep thinking I'm going to try your Ways2Well people,

Amy: Yeah. Mhm.

Whitney: because I kind of got off the function train.

Amy: Oh, you did?

Whitney: Well, I had a doctor, and then he was like 90, and he retired. But also, I was like, well, he's 90, and he's still working. And he says he feels like he's 65,

Amy: Huh.

Whitney: so I I told you the story. Remember, he was the OB-GYN in Houston that was my mom's OB-GYN's partner. So, like, he could have easily seen my mom while she was pregnant with me. So weird.

Amy: I thought you were about to say seen my mom's hoo-ha.

Whitney: Mom's vagina. I'm sure. Maybe even mine as a tiny, tiny newborn. Who knows?

Amy: Wow. Weird.

Whitney: But then he he retired, and I just didn't go back to the to the place with the new person.

Amy: Yeah. Huh. Well, yeah. Then, you know, you've got to figure out your path forward, and that's kind of what we're all doing. And I'm going to talk a little bit about like measurements and stuff like that. But it's a fucking guessing game a lot of times, because we're, as we said in the menopause menopause episode. Sorry. I got Botox in my lip. Oh. Menopause episode, they're fluctuating. We're still having cycles, and so it's just like

Whitney: Yeah, I feel like I'm in the middle, even though this is so hilarious, because I feel like for the last three years, I've been trying to figure it out. I feel like I'm in this moment of restructuring, like I've got to regroup and, you know, figure out what I'm going to what my protocol's going to be next. Which is exhausting.

Amy: Well, it's just like

Whitney: It's exhausting.

Amy: everything else. It's maintenance, and it's a process, and it's a practice, and nothing's a one and done. Fucking nothing. Fucking nothing.

Whitney: No. Honestly, and I'm glad I'm doing this little limited serious series about creating a max life because I think there's more I can be doing just internally, not not biologically, but like mentally and emotionally. I feel like I've maybe neglected that and have been more about the supplements and the diet and the shots and the blah-dee-blah, instead of taking more time for peacefulness and nature and self-esteem and reading books and community, things like that.

Amy: Yeah, nature makes a big difference. And community, too. I mean, so, you know, I know. And, you know, it's hard to do everything. So, just

Whitney: You can't do everything. You cannot do everything.

Amy: I don't I don't know how you do everything.

Whitney: You I just said, you can't. Are you not listening to me?

Amy: Well, on this note, I got an Oura Ring for Mother's Day, so

Whitney: Oh, my goodness.

Amy: and my I used to have one.

Whitney: You told me. Yeah. And it created heat or something.

Amy: Well, I felt like I could feel it, but maybe it was old. I'd had used it a lot.

Whitney: Well, this is a pretty one. I've only seen the black ones.

Amy: It's gold. Yeah, I got a gold one. It's pretty. So, I'm very excited. A friend of mine I had it way back in 2018, '19, and a friend

Whitney: Yeah. It's probably changed a lot since then.

Amy: You know what? It has. It tracks a lot of menopause, perimenopause.

Whitney: Really?

Amy: Yeah. It's got all sorts of interesting things. Like I was playing with it just last night, the app, and it's got a ton of different features. So, I

Whitney: You'll have to do an episode on it, because I don't all I knew about it really was that you wear it, and it monitor it tells you about your sleep. And I was like,

Amy: That's what I thought.

Whitney: I know if I can if I'm not sleeping.

Amy: Well, I felt like I didn't sleep well last night. We ate these garlic mashed potatoes, and I felt like I they just stayed with me all night. It was a night I hate it. I don't like a lot of garlic, and like

Whitney: Oh, it's so good for you, though.

Amy: It Oh. And so, I just felt like I slept terribly, and I got an 86 on my sleep score.

Whitney: Oh, interesting.

Amy: So, I'm a good sleeper, though, you know. And so, I'm like, got my first readiness score. So, let me let me explore it. But it does heart rate variation, HRV score. It's like really

Whitney: Yes. Yeah.

Amy: much as you should expect, right? It's been over six years, seven years since I've had one. So, I'm excited to like explore it. So, down the road, I'll keep you posted. So, I'm excited to like pay more attention to my vitals and stuff and, like, just

Whitney: But doesn't your Apple Watch do the same type of thing?

Amy: Not like this. And I don't wear mine to sleep in and stuff. So, I'm excited. This is more in depth than Apple Watch.

Whitney: All right. Yeah. So, you were happy with that Mother's Day gift? You weren't like, "Oh,

Amy: Well, I bought it for myself, so, yeah.

Whitney: whatever."

Amy: I said, "Everyone, you bought me an Oura Ring, so thank you." Yeah.

Whitney: That is hilarious. Okay, so you made the decision.

Amy: Yes. I bought it, but Justin paid, but it was from everyone, so, yeah. So, I'm excited about that.

Whitney: All right. Yeah.

Amy: So,

Whitney: Yeah, I'm excited to hear more about it.

Amy: that's my mid moment, because I'm like tapping into my vitals, baby.

Whitney: Tapping into my vitals.

Amy: So, speaking of vitals, let's talk about estrogen.

Whitney: Let's do it. Estrogen. I'm a in a singing mood today, I guess.

Amy: Estrogen.

Whitney: Estrogen.

Amy: Okay. So, estrogen is a Estrogen. is a sex hormone that's necessary for maintaining your sexual and reproductive health. Estrogen levels naturally fluctuate during different life stages and your menstrual cycle,

Whitney: Mhm. Okay.

Amy: which we kind of knew.

Whitney: We knew that. Although, I I'm bothered now by it being called a sex hormone, because I think as we learn more, it's not just about your sexual reproduction reproductivety.

Amy: No, but it is classified in the area of sex hormones, because I was like, what are hormones? When I was going to do the series on hormones, I was like, how many hormones are there? And it's like, there's a fuck ton, okay? And so,

Whitney: Yeah. That is a scientific fact right there. There's a fuck ton.

Amy: That's right. Fuck ton. So, there's a fuck ton of hormones, but the specific ones that are for sex are like testosterone,

Whitney: Progesterone.

Amy: progesterone, estrogen, yeah.

Whitney: Estrogen. DHEA.

Amy: Well, D I'm going to cover a little bit, but DHEA is going to be one that I cover on this series, along with pregnenolone, okay?

Whitney: Okay, great. So,

Amy: Cuz I'm taking that.

Whitney: Oh, I've never even heard of that.

Amy: Yeah. So, this is a five-part series, and those are the

Whitney: We're both doing series.

Amy: And they're both five parts. So, that was I was like pleased to see that. So, that's what I'm mainly going to cover is those five. Pregnen- pregnenolone, anyway.

Whitney: Yes. Okay.

Amy: I'm just thinking of prednisone, and that's not a sex hormone. Prednisone, no, it's not. It's not, but there's lots of hormones that fall into different categories. So,

Whitney: That's a steroid.

Amy: these are like sexual reproductive ones. So, that's what we're

Whitney: Reproduction.

Amy: I I wish Oh, my god, I just saw some about Grease 2 songs, and, you know, people were claiming Grease 2's better.

Whitney: Were you thinking Yeah. Where does the pollen go?

Amy: Yeah. Where does Yes. I love it. I love Grease 2, but I love Grease 1. They're just different.

Whitney: I love them both, yes.

Amy: They're equally awesome in different ways.

Whitney: I agree. When I when Grease 2 first came out, I wasn't quite a fan. It took a couple of years, I think, and and multiple times of watching it. Cuz it's nothing's ever going to be Grease.

Amy: No, and you know what? They did a good job making it its own world. Yeah. And I mean Michelle Pfeiffer, come on. Come on. Yeah.

Whitney: Totally different, yeah. Oh, so good.

Amy: Okay. Consistently high or low levels of estrogen may signal a condition that requires your healthcare provider's attention. We are not doctors, as you know.

Whitney: No.

Amy: So, yeah. Estrogen is a group of is a group.

Whitney: A group?

Amy: Yep. It's a group of female sex hormones. Along with other hormones, progesterone, like progesterone, which we will cover in this series. I'm going to do it next, actually. Estrogen plays a key role in female reproductive health. Males do have estrogen as well, but in much lower amounts.

Whitney: Sure. Cuz women also have testosterone, just in lower amounts.

Amy: Exactly. Yes, which we're going to cover testosterone. Estrogen plays an important role in other body systems for both males and females. This includes supporting heart, bone, and brain health. And let's get into the three major forms of estrogen. Did you even know this?

Whitney: Okay. I didn't know that it was a group, and I didn't know there were three forms.

Amy: I didn't, either.

Whitney: I just get confused that when I need estrogen, I take estradiol.

Amy: Me, too. And I thought that was like

Whitney: The name of estrogen, yeah.

Amy: the name of a replacement drug. I thought it was a drug name. Guess what? It's not.

Whitney: Yes, same.

Amy: Guess what? It's not. So, there's E1, E2, and E3. E1, estrone,

Whitney: One of the three.

Amy: okay? Estrone is the primary form of estrogen. Why Why am I having trouble saying the word estrogen?

Whitney: Because you got Botox in your lip. You got a flip lip flip.

Amy: Estrogen. That yes, I did. With Botox, which I'd never done before. Okay. That your body Okay. Let me start over that sentence. Estrone,

Whitney: Oh. Estrone.

Amy: E1, is the primary form of estrogen that your body makes after menopause.

Whitney: Okay, say that again.

Amy: E1

Whitney: Is made after menopause.

Amy: Estrone after menopause.

Whitney: Interesting.

Amy: Estradiol,

Whitney: Oh, that's what we're taking.

Amy: E2, is the primary form of estrogen in your body during your reproductive years and is the most potent and powerful form.

Whitney: Which is why we are taking it now.

Amy: So, that is actual estrogen, the kind that you want.

Whitney: That estradiol, yeah.

Amy: Estradiol. Estradiol.

Whitney: Yeah, I just say estradiol, but you're pronouncing it correctly.

Amy: That's probably better. Estriol, E-S-T-R-I-O-L, right? Like you take a couple letters out there.

Whitney: Oh, my gosh. It's Yeah.

Amy: E3, is the primary form of estrogen during pregnancy. I know. All right. So, the body makes estrogen through a process that starts with, do you know what?

Whitney: The body makes ex estrogen.

Amy: Makes estrogen through a process that starts with what from food? Do you have any idea?

Whitney: Process that's called With what from food?

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: No clue.

Amy: Cholesterol.

Whitney: What?

Amy: I know. Yeah. Cholesterol then goes to progesterone-related hormones, which then go to androgens, like testosterone,

Whitney: Oh, I've heard of those, yeah.

Amy: and then estrogen. The ovaries make the strongest type of estrogen, called estradiol, estradiol, whatever we're taking. Estradiol, let's go with estradiol, okay? Fat cells can make weaker forms of estrogen, which is interesting, cuz when you start taking it, you can gain weight,

Whitney: Oh, which I find interesting. Yeah.

Amy: which I find interesting. Yeah.

Whitney: You get a little belly fat. Yeah.

Amy: As women approach menopause, then, estrogen level drops estrogen levels drop, which can cause symptoms like hot flashes, been there, night sweats, been there, mood changes, been there, vaginal dryness, meh.

Whitney: Mhm. Yep. I have not been there.

Amy: Not too much for me. But I'm careful about it, right? So,

Whitney: What do you mean?

Amy: I mean I try to like

Whitney: Hydrate your vagina?

Amy: hyaluronic, you know, you can do that. But I do have a red light

Whitney: But you're But, yeah. I know, you keep talking about it, but you won't use it, and tell us about it.

Amy: I know. I need to more. But I also like try to make sure I'm aroused if we're going to have sex. I'm like we have to make out enough and that kind of stuff. So, like that's kind of I'm like, you know, seems like

Whitney: You keep saying You need to at least bring it in, so we can see it. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Amy: I allow myself the warm-up time with my husband, I guess you'd say.

Whitney: Somebody told me that she takes DHEA about 20 minutes before she's going to get crazy with her man, and she's like dripping.

Amy: Really? Oh.

Whitney: I was like, "Really?"

Amy: This is good. Okay. I'm going to explore that on my DHEA episode.

Whitney: Yeah, do, cuz I was like, "Are you sure?" She's I go, "Do you take it every day?" And she goes, "No, I take it like 20 minutes before."

Amy: That's so Wow. Well, I have been taking DHEA, so maybe that has something to do with it. Okay. Doctors discovered over time that replacing estrogen could help relieve menopause symptoms. Duh. Okay. We say duh, but in the late 1800s and early 1900s, scientists were just beginning to understand hormones, and early treatments used extracts from ovaries and placentas. And the hormone estrogen was officially identified in 1929.

Whitney: Oh. Mhm.

Amy: One of the first popular estrogen medicines was Premarin, made from pregnant horse urine.

Whitney: Uh-oh.

Amy: Oh, no.

Whitney: Oh, no. Can I just

Amy: Oh, no. Wait. Yeah, yeah.

Whitney: They would make a They made a pill of pregnant horse peed, and they made a pill from it. And they gave it to women.

Amy: It was It was just Guess so. It became one of the most prescribed drugs in the US for menopause treatment.

Whitney: When was this? This was in the 1920s?

Amy: '30s, '40s, I guess. Yeah. I know. As we know, leaping forward into 2002, there was a large study called the Women's Health Initiative. It changed how people viewed hormone replacement therapy and

Whitney: Made it evil.

Amy: Yep. Yep. It is widely considered flawed, of course, primarily because it tested older women at the average age of 63 who were long past menopause, leading to findings that didn't apply to younger women. And it used a specific type of synthetic hormone not commonly used today. And so people panicked, of course, and

Whitney: Yeah, pulled it pulled it off the shelves, or, you know.

Amy: Yes. Yes. So, those were the key problems. From what I've read, it is quite complex about the problems that there were with that study. So, I

Whitney: All that mess. All you really need to know is that you didn't have all the information, and it's actually not dangerous.

Amy: Right. Right.

Whitney: It doesn't cause cancer. In everybody.

Amy: Right. Mm-mm. Yeah. So, that study, that's I don't want to cover that how, you know, it did find a lot of issues. Women stopped taking hormone replacement, which sucks.

Whitney: Yeah. And cold turkey, just like you no, you're done. No, I can't.

Amy: A disservice. Fuckin' A. What a disservice.

Whitney: I remember when my mom was going through menopause, and her doctor put her she was taking like 10 birth control pills a day. I know, cuz she was bleeding so much.

Amy: What?

Whitney: And then she was separating from my dad at the time, and then she got back with him, because she was so emotional and on all the birth control.

Amy: No.

Whitney: I was like, "What are you doing?" And she was like, "I just miss him." And I was like,

Amy: Oh, messy. That is That sucks. Like

Whitney: She eventually got divorced, so.

Amy: But that there you go, that's the life implications that this can have, right?

Whitney: Well, yeah. Think about your mental state when you're on your period, or when you're not, you know, getting the the right doses of hormones. I mean, I'm I'm feeling that right now, I think.

Amy: Yeah. And if you add in any substance on top of that, maybe you're not eating great, then you don't feel like exercising, your sleep is disrupted, if you're drinking, I mean, it's just it's going to have massive It's a shit storm. There's the word I'm looking for.

Whitney: It's a shit storm.

Amy: All right. So, later, doctors realized the risks, of course, depended on the types of hormones, how they were delivered, whether the woman still had a uterus, age, and health condition, blah blah blah. So now, we've got modern estrogen that is much more safer and more advanced. So, they are made from plants, or created to closely match the body's natural hormones, i.e., bioidentical hormones. Let me just fast forward here, because I have a little bit of the 411 on that. It is manufactured modern estradiol is manufactured through a semi-synthetic process, typically starting with the chemical conversion of plant-based steroids, mainly soy or wild yam.

Whitney: Mmm, wild yam.

Amy: And then they're broken down into other compounds, I'm not going to get all science-y on you. They're chemically modified then to so that's why semi-synthetic, to create estradiol that is chemically identical to the estrogen produced by the human body. So, there you have that, right?

Whitney: Okay.

Amy: Okay. So, backing back up. Newer delivery methods include, of course, oral, there's skin patches, there's creams, there's vaginal tablets or rings. Now, you use a skin patch, correct?

Whitney: No, I I was always taking the pill, and then I felt like I wasn't getting enough, cuz all of a sudden, my hot flashes came back. So, then I went on Dude. So, then I went on the patch, and then they upped my dosage on the patch, and then my boobs were hurting all the time. So, I was like, okay, I'm getting too much, and I didn't like the patch, because I would forget cuz you you change it every like three days or something. And I would forget to change it, cuz it wasn't a pill that I was taking every day, and then I couldn't remember, wait, am I supposed to change it on Tuesdays or Wednesdays? And then

Amy: I remember I do remember this.

Whitney: it also leaves like a sticky, you know, residue that you're literally trying to scrub off.

Amy: That makes me so mad. That makes me so mad.

Whitney: But it has to have that in order to stay put.

Amy: No, they can do better.

Whitney: They could do better. But did you know that they're actually there's a shortage of estrogen out there right now?

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: Yeah. Cuz everybody's on it. Cuz now everybody's on it, and they're not making enough. I just saw something

Amy: Wow. I bet they're there's not a shortage of Viagra. I bet there's not a shortage of Cialis,

Whitney: There's like 10 different ways you could, yeah, get your dick up.

Amy: or balding medicine. Fuckin' A.

Whitney: We're getting better, though. We're being we're starting to get vocal. There's a lot more women in the medical field, I think, that are trying to work on it. So, we're getting there.

Amy: I also, since you brought up hot flashes, something about estrogen helps us regulate our body temperature. And when we don't have enough, we can't regulate our body temperature, which I don't understand how that fits with anything.

Whitney: I don't know, the body is a mystery. But I'm starting to get hot flashes again, and that's what I'm confused by. I literally

Amy: When do you get them?

Whitney: At night. I mean, it's always at night. Mine are at night.

Amy: Yeah. Mine are at night.

Whitney: And it and it's I'm asleep, and then it starts happening, and then I'm like, wait, am I hot because it's hot in here, or am I having a hot flash? And I luckily, it has not been to the degree that it was before I went on estradiol, because that was like literally in two seconds, my whole face was sweating and red. It was horrible.

Amy: Yours is on your face, mine's my chest, you know, my burning orb.

Whitney: It's everywhere, but I yes, you're burning orb. It it's everywhere for me, but it was showing up in my face, which is so embarrassing when you're like trying to have a conversation, or flirt with someone, and then all of a sudden, you're just red and pouring sweat.

Amy: Pardon me while I go stand in a freezer.

Whitney: They're like, "Are you having a heart attack?" Mhm. Anyway.

Amy: So, some of these new delivery methods, like the patch that we're talking about, make

Whitney: And pellets? Can you get it in pellets?

Amy: You know what? I didn't see pellets, because I know testosterone you can have.

Whitney: Yeah. I think you could do it like in pellets, too.

Amy: So, I don't know. Okay, well, I let let me see.

Whitney: I'm sorry, I derailed you.

Amy: Is No, we should know.

Whitney: I feel like you can get pellets, and you yeah, and you you get it all together, and you put the pellets in there. I don't like the pellet idea.

Amy: Um, why didn't AI mode tell me? Is there estrogen pellets is what I asked it. Yes. Yes, there are.

Whitney: Yeah, they're coming up with all different ways to get it in you.

Amy: Okay, pellets. So, progesterone is often added to the estrogen therapy for women who still have a uterus to lower the risk of uterine cancer cancer.

Whitney: Well, and also, and I found this out, because remember I was bleeding, and I had to go and get an ultrasound, progesterone decreases the thickness the lining of your uterus. Whereas estrogen is getting your uterus ready for a baby, progesterone's like, "No, no, we're going to make this a lot thinner."

Amy: So confusing for your body.

Whitney: Oh, man.

Amy: I mean.

Whitney: But what's crazy is, why is it so confusing, because it's been doing it on its own. Now I'm just giving it what it's not producing anymore, and it's getting it all fucked up.

Amy: Yeah, figure it out, everybody.

Whitney: Yeah, body.

Amy: Come on, organs. Maybe we need to talk to them.

Whitney: Do better.

Amy: So, also, some of these new delivery methods bypass the liver and do reduce the risk of blood clots. You knew that.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Yes, I did know that.

Amy: You know a lot.

Whitney: Well, that's because I was asking why I'd get on the patch, and

Amy: They said that?

Whitney: it is, yeah, it is obviously bypassing my stomach and my liver and everything, cuz I'm not ingesting it through the mouth orally.

Amy: What the fuck with blood clots, too?

Whitney: I didn't know about the blood clots.

Amy: I don't like that. All right. So, like all hormones, estrogen is a chemical messenger. It tells your body when to start and stop processes affecting your sexual and reproductive health, and fucking everything else. Your body temperature, apparently. Estrogen has specific roles during different life stages. They rise and fall through your life, we get that. And the fluctuation is normal, and even during para or postmenopausal, you're still going to have cycles of it, as we covered in our menopause episode, a great addendum to this if you haven't listened. So, they rise during It rises during puberty, declines as you approach menopause, yes, rises during ovulation, so there's like a bigger arc, and then there's little arcs you know, throughout every month, you know, every 28 days, right? Ovulation, so your body prepares itself for pregnancy, just like you were saying. Drops during your period, because pregnancy didn't happen. Increases significantly throughout pregnancy, peaking in the third trimester, and then falls dramatically after childbirth.

Whitney: Which is why you can get postpartum, cuz your hormones are all messed up.

Amy: Right. I mean, right, just like anything else, when you drop off, you're like going to experience a massive dip.

Whitney: Yeah. And maybe they didn't have such a difficulty

Amy: Seems like a design flaw.

Whitney: back in the day when food was giving them a lot of the nutrients and stuff that they needed.

Amy: Maybe. Maybe.

Whitney: Cuz I mean, if wild I I can remember somebody saying they were taking like yam pills or something to help with

Amy: Really?

Whitney: Yeah, so I mean, if you're eating a lot of yams in the olden days, maybe your estrogen was

Amy: The yam farmers were

Whitney: getting laid.

Amy: Yeah, they were feeling good. So, as we said, estrogen drops during menopause and fluctuates wildly, right, during perimenopause, that long and extremely variable time that we all know

Whitney: And love.

Amy: and I wasn't going to say and love. The decrease may lead to symptoms like hot flashes, vaginal dryness. And that's that primary primary change from estradiol to estrone, E2 to E1 during menopause. What are normal estrogen levels, you may ask?

Whitney: I was just thinking that, Amy.

Amy: Mhm. So, normal, we're going to talk about estradiol, right? The one that we're taking.

Whitney: Are you going to talk any more about estrone?

Amy: Not a lot. No.

Whitney: Just curious, why are we making it, and, you know, what is it doing that we need in postmenopause?

Amy: I know, I wonder what the like chemical difference is, too, like why.

Whitney: Cuz when I take my When I did did blood work before I was taking estrogen, you know, it was it was very the I guess it's testing all three of the estrogens. It was very low, but there was a little bit still there. Same thing with my mom, who was what, 77 when I got her on hormones.

Amy: Yeah. That's wild.

Whitney: But she took blood tests first, and there was just a tiny little amount.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: Yeah, which I guess was probably the estrone. Anyway.

Amy: Mhm. Mhm. Just curious.

Whitney: Just curious.

Amy: Well, yeah. Estradiol, so I just looked it up, too. Estradiol, E2, is like just a more powerful form of estrone. So, it sounds to me

Whitney: So, it's giving your body a little bit so that you don't go completely crazy.

Amy: Exactly. That's exactly it. Estrone is a significantly weaker form of estradiol, essentially, which is 4% to 10% the potency of E2.

Whitney: Okay. Hm.

Amy: And E is E2

Whitney: You're Your body's basically preparing to die.

Amy: E2, yeah, we're shriveling up and dying, actually. E2 is produced by the ovaries mainly, and E1 is body fat and muscle. That's how it's produced. So, if you're weightlifting and building muscle, that's one of the best things that you can do to boost that. That's good, right?

Whitney: Oh, okay. That makes sense. Oh, interesting.

Amy: And anyway, release

Whitney: That makes sense, cuz what cuz the episode that I did on ovaries, you know, that's why they're looking at ovary longevity now to try to keep them from retiring early.

Amy: Yeah. Yes.

Whitney: But that makes sense. They start to stop producing, but your muscle and fat are still doing what they've always done.

Amy: Super interesting. Yeah.

Whitney: Yeah. The body really is pretty incredible.

Amy: It's so incredible. It is really, really so interesting. But everything works together, and I think that's just important to remember, right? Like the food we eat is converting, the weights we lift are forming muscle that helps do this. Like, it's really That part is so trippy.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah.

Amy: Well, that's why I think they're finally telling older people like you've got to lift

Whitney: You've got to lift.

Amy: heavy weights to keep that muscle mass and keep your body producing some of the things. We don't think of muscles as actually doing like I'd never thought of muscles producing anything. I just thought I build it up, and then I can pick up my, you know, Right.

Whitney: suitcase.

Amy: But it is affecting everything. It's wild. Everybody lift your weights. Okay. So, here's normal levels of estradiol for females, for females. I'll cover males in a sec. Early follicular is 30 to 100, this is measured in picograms per milliliter.

Whitney: You know that makes I have no idea what you mean.

Amy: Let's just We're just going to say 30 to 100. That's our measurement, though. 30 to 100, and then late follicular, 100 to 400, right? We're get peaking.

Whitney: What's follicular?

Amy: Follicular, I think, is the first half, right, where you're leading up to ovulation.

Whitney: Okay, gotcha.

Amy: And then you hit your ovulation, and that's peaking at 100 to 400, right? Then the luteal is when it's dropping off, and then you have your period. So, luteal will be 50 to 150. So, we're dropping off, and so that's our that's our like crest. Postmenopause, though,

Whitney: Oh, no.

Amy: It's not good. 2 to 21.

Whitney: Holy shit.

Amy: I know. So, we're experiencing that big drop, so that's what we're replacing with the R in HRT. So, after menopause, estrone, of course, main estrogen, and normal levels of estrone are like 3 to 32. So, that's already going to be a degraded degraded, I don't know, a lessened form of estradiol, so we've got to replace. For males, normal estradiol levels are under the age of 18 up to 36, and then 18 and older, 10 to 42.

Whitney: All right.

Amy: So, interpreting estrogen

Whitney: But if you smoke weed, I heard that has estrogen in it.

Amy: What?

Whitney: I read that somewhere or heard it somewhere.

Amy: And we want that, or don't?

Whitney: Men don't. That's why they get man boobs. If you're a pot smoker, you can get man boobs because of the estrogen in the weed.

Amy: Look it up. You know what? It is the female part of the plant that flowers, right,

Whitney: There you go.

Amy: that you smoke. Does not contain human estrogen, but it contains plant compounds that can mimic it or disrupt your body's natural hormone balance. Whoa.

Whitney: I know. I tried to get my kid to stop smoking it by telling him he was going to get boobs, but

Amy: Wow, it didn't work?

Whitney: I don't think so.

Amy: Phytoestrogens. Cannabis contains a flavonoid called apigenin, which is a phytoestrogen.

Whitney: There you go. That's the plant estrogen.

Amy: That's the I'm pretty sure it's like the the the female plant that you want.

Whitney: Well, that's what we're taking. Well, I mean, we're not taking weed for it. But you were just saying that the estradiol that they they're getting it from plants.

Amy: Yeah. Holy crap. Research has shown that crude marijuana extracts and smoke condensate can compete with estradiol to bind estrogen receptors. I don't quite know what that means, but holy crap.

Whitney: It basically is saying that Whitney is right.

Amy: Pure THC and CBD generally do not bind directly to estrogen receptors or act as estrogens themselves. Interesting. But it can it can affect you. It's an endocrine disruptor.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. There you go.

Amy: Damn, dude. Okay. How will you know your estrogen level? Well, go get it tested, right? An estrogen test can measure your levels of E1, E2, and E3. It's a simple blood test. Interesting. Now, if you want to look for symptoms of low estrogen,

Whitney: Just look at me.

Amy: signs and symptoms Signs and symptoms can include everything all over the fucking map, right? Decreased sex drive, difficulty concentrating, fun times, dry skin, headaches before or during your period, menstrual migraine, hot flashes, night sweats, irregular periods, no periods, moodiness, irritability, painful sex, vaginal dryness or atrophy, thinning of vaginal skin, trouble sleeping, insomnia.

Whitney: Oh, my gosh.

Amy: In girls, it can delay puberty, or slow, or prevent sexual development. So, how can we help with this? Well, there are some natural ways, too, that I'll share with you, but also HRT.

Whitney: Yeah. Why wouldn't you?

Amy: So, focus I know. Lifestyle ways include Well, let's talk about some vitamins and minerals, first. Boron, I don't even know what the fuck boron is, right?

Whitney: Mhm.

Amy: Vitamin B, vitamin D, vitamin E, we like that. B supports estrogen production and metabolism, D supports estrogen pro- production, and E may help reduce hot flashes, insomnia, and other low estrogen symptoms. I personally don't take E, but I hopefully get it in my diet, I try. I do take B and D, also good for you.

Whitney: Mhm. I take D and K. I just had all my blood work redone, and for some crazy reason, all my vitamins were good.

Amy: Good.

Whitney: But I'm not taking everything that I was taking when I was doing the, you know, Bryan Johnson protocol.

Amy: Yeah, yeah. You're not doing the any of that anymore? Okay.

Whitney: No.

Amy: So, you you know, these supplements are not regulated by the FDA, but a few supplements, and one that someone told me to cover on this show was black cohosh.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, that's what my friend takes, black cohosh, yeah.

Amy: Really? In addition to HRT, or

Whitney: She was taking it, I think I don't know what she's doing now, but this was like 10 years ago, she was on it for hot flashes.

Amy: Wow. Interesting.

Whitney: But I'm sure she's on HRT now.

Amy: Did it help?

Whitney: I don't think that it helped that much, but she was still taking it.

Amy: Yeah. Hm.

Whitney: But she was still getting hot flashes.

Amy: May reduce things symptoms like hot flashes, apparently. DHEA converts into estrogen and testosterone in the body. Red clover may help with hot flashes, though evidence for boosting est- estrogen is unclear. So, there's also, of course, you want to get good quality sleep,

Whitney: But if you have low estrogen Exactly. It's like a vicious cycle.

Amy: Exactly. Give me a break. It is. It is. And then good old stress management, cortisol. Cortisol, you know, chronic stress increases cortisol, which disrupts your est- estrogen and hormones. Managing stress, of course, means exercise, lift weights, but you don't want to do excessive exercise, cuz apparently that lowers your estrogen, too.

Whitney: What? That's crazy.

Amy: I know. Balanced diet, reduce sugar intake, eat more fiber, healthy fats, olive oil, nuts, seeds, fish. And then, of course, we get to HRT, which we love. Non-hormonal treatments could also help, including cognitive behavioral therapy, medications, medications, lifestyle changes. Yeah, yeah, for stress, for stress.

Whitney: Oh, yeah, for stress. CBT for stress. Okay, gotcha. I'm like, how is that going to up my estradiol?

Amy: So, you know, the gold standard form of est- estrogen for HRT is what you and I are both taking, estradiol. It is FDA-approved for menopause symptoms and can improve your quality of life, including reducing risks of osteoporosis and coronary artery disease when started early in menopause. Very nice, right? We covered how it comes, including pellets, and it is apparently not suitable for everyone. Women over 60 should, you know, talk to a health practitioner, because it can increase risks of coronary artery disease, blood clots, stroke, and low low sto- low, did I say low local?

Whitney: Low local.

Amy: Low-dose local treatments like the tablets, or creams, or something like that can have lower risks.

Whitney: I should probably get my mom rechecked, cuz she she got put on all of that when she was 77.

Amy: Why are you in charge of this for her? You just are?

Whitney: Well, who else would be in charge of it?

Amy: Her?

Whitney: She didn't know anything about it, you know, and I was like She was cramping. Actually, I was getting a cramp a second ago. I think that's a midlife thing.

Amy: Well, it goes with hydration, too, but

Whitney: She wasn't dehydrated, but I think when you don't have estrogen, everything dries up. So, that's

Amy: Huh.

Whitney: your vagina, your skin,

Amy: Shit.

Whitney: your joints are, you know. So, she was getting all these horrible cramps like in the like her, you know, hand would just all of a sudden go into this painful cramp, yeah.

Amy: Really? Is she drinking enough water, though?

Whitney: She doesn't drink a lot of water, but that's Studies are saying that that's not necessarily a need.

Amy: What?

Whitney: That eight glasses of water a day or whatever. Don't quote me on it, but I'm pretty sure that I mean, look, you can find anything to support anything.

Amy: Yeah, you can.

Whitney: But she doesn't drink a lot of water. She's trying to do that more. But anyway, she got on HRT, and and they went away.

Amy: Wow, okay.

Whitney: But she also has some heart like

Amy: Really?

Whitney: artery things going on, and we have strokes in our family, so maybe I should

Amy: Shit.

Whitney: have her go to Ways2Well with me or whatever I do next.

Amy: Yeah, something like that. So, well, I hope that helped. It helped me a lot.

Whitney: I'm already more informed, like

Amy: I feel very informed.

Whitney: Yeah, I had no idea I you know, and again, this is what we've done our whole lives, it's just like, "Okay, well, ovaries have stopped working. Okay, well, I'm going to start having hot flashes now, and that's just the way things are." Like, I didn't really even know how the ovaries were, you know, I knew they did the egg thing, but that was all. You know, we just didn't We weren't taught to question or learn about our bodies, cuz nobody else was.

Amy: No, and I think I felt kind of alone. I thought that maybe everybody else knew, and I didn't, and I wasn't paying attention or something like that. But it it's comforting now to know like, okay, we're all learning about this together, and that's okay.

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Amy: Yeah. So, great. Well, I really really enjoyed that. So, next time, I'm going to do progesterone, and then I'll do testosterone, which is a biggie. I'm nervous about that one, so

Whitney: Maybe it's a two-parter.

Amy: you know, and maybe I missed some stuff, so please excuse me if I did.

Whitney: We're not doctors, we're not scientists, we're just two lovely ladies in the middle of

Amy: Two curious curious souls. That's right.

Whitney: midlife. Yeah.

Amy: So, then we'll do testosterone, and then we'll do pregnenolone, and then DHEA. So,

Whitney: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

Amy: I am, too. And, you know, I feel like we should throw hyaluronic acid in there down the road at some point. So,

Whitney: Yeah, we've kind of touched on it here and there.

Amy: Yeah, we have. So, awesome. Send us your questions, anything that you have for us. We want to hear it, and we're just so grateful that you was were here with us, right? Cuz this is this is how this is how it goes.

Whitney: Yeah. This is real life. And we want to talk about it. And just also remember what we said, you can't do it all. There's just no possible way, and it can get overwhelming. So, take little bits, find out what you want to fix first, and kind of just focus on that. Like right now for me, it's brain focus, you know, memory, that kind of getting rid of that fog that I'm going to focus on next. But you can't it it's too overwhelming to take it all on. Do what fits for you, and do it in your way.

Amy: Do what you want.

Whitney: All right. Bye.

Amy: Please follow and subscribe to Anything But Mid anywhere you get your podcasts. Email us your mid moment at anythingbutmidpodcast@gmail.com. And remember, we do what we want.