Top Insights

• Whitney's hair was at its best during the pandemic, when she happened to be taking marine collagen. She stopped only because the price went up, and did not connect the two until much later.
• The affirmations did not work. She told her hair how much she loved it while washing it, and the shedding carried on.
• Biotin did nothing for her nails after a few weeks, so she abandoned it. Amy has taken it for years and is not convinced either.
• Rosemary oil is talked about as a natural stand-in for minoxidil, but it has to be diluted, and Whitney could not stand feeling greasy enough to keep it up.
• A functional health doctor added testosterone, thyroid medication and DHEA at once. Her shedding stopped for two weeks, then came back, and her bloodwork later showed DHEA at 243 against a ceiling of 170 for her age.
• Too much testosterone did the opposite of what she wanted: hair stopped growing on her scalp and started growing on her face.
• Whitney's own bloodwork, not her doctors, caught the DHEA problem. Her advice is to keep testing and keep your own records.
• The part nobody tells you: there is no cure. Every treatment masks the symptom, so stopping puts you back where you started, which is why she is now weighing how long to stay on oral minoxidil.

Mentioned in This Episode

• The Amy Edwards Show
• Elizabeth Gilbert

Full Transcript

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Neither host is a doctor and nothing here is medical advice. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Whitney: And we're recording. Okay. I'm Whitney.

Amy: And I'm Amy. Oh! I'm Whitney and I'm Amy, and you may be in midlife, but you're anything but mid.

Whitney: All right. Today's episode is my personal hair loss journey.

Amy: A lot of people have been talking to me about hair loss. I feel like it is something that was never talked about before and now it is.

Whitney: No, and for someone like me, I've always had a beautiful head of hair.

Amy: You have a gorgeous head of hair. Very thick, lustrous.

Whitney: Full and just thriving. And what was really crazy is, so I've always had great hair, and then during the pandemic, I don't know if you remember because we were working at the radio station together, but my hair went into overdrive. And it was the most luxurious it has ever been. Like, it was thriving during the pandemic. And the only thing that I could figure out was the only thing that I was doing was I was taking marine collagen.

Amy: No way.

Whitney: Yes. Now, there's a lot, first of all, as we always say, we are not doctors.

Amy: We are not doctors. This is not medical advice in any way, shape, or form.

Whitney: This is just personal experience and opinion. So, and at the time I'd probably been taking it for like a year, maybe.

Amy: Wow.

Whitney: Yeah, and I hadn't really thought about what the... I don't even remember why I was taking it. I feel like everyone was just taking it.

Amy: I didn't even know about marine collagen back then.

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: I feel like collagen wasn't a big thing back then.

Whitney: I don't know, I guess I was on the cutting edge. I'm not sure.

Amy: You really were an early adopter.

Whitney: I was early to the party, the collagen party. But, since then, like when you listen to people talk about it, you can find people that are like, "There's really no research that says 100% that collagen is working." You'll hear people say, "Oh, you can't ingest collagen to create collagen." Like, it's a whole thing.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: And I don't know what's true. But all I know is during the pandemic, I had the best hair I've ever had, and I was taking marine collagen.

Amy: Why'd you stop?

Whitney: Because they raised the price.

Amy: A great reason.

Whitney: They raised the price of my marine collagen and I was like, "Meh, I don't need it," okay? And not realizing that maybe there was a correlation between the great hair and the collagen, right?

Amy: Right, but in hindsight, that's what you're thinking.

Whitney: That's what I'm thinking, maybe there was. Yeah, and then when I went back and did a little bit of research, collagen does provide this amino acid called proline, which is like the building block to keratin, which is, you know, you get those keratin treatments for your hair and all that.

Amy: Oh my god.

Whitney: So, supposedly it is giving, you know, the main protein what it needs. So that makes sense. So, cut to a year later or something, I start to notice that every time I'm in the shower, I'm creating a cute little baby wig out of the clumps of hair that are falling out of my head.

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: And, you know, you're kind of like, "Oh, this isn't good." And so, at that time I was very into the affirmations.

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: So my thought process was, I'm just going to tell my hair how luxurious and beautiful it is and how much I love it while I'm washing it.

Amy: I love that. Okay, did it work?

Whitney: It did not work.

Amy: It didn't.

Whitney: No. Continued with the baby wigs. So I was like, "I've got to do something. You know, what am I going to do?" And I was very into, I don't want to add medications or anything, I just want to try to find something. And everyone talked about biotin.

Amy: Biotin.

Whitney: Biotin, biotin. So I got on biotin. And by the way, my nails have always been crappy. Like, thin and just not pretty at all.

Amy: Yeah, mine aren't great either.

Whitney: And so I started on the biotin. And like after a couple weeks, I didn't notice any difference in my nails. And I was like, "Okay, well I don't think this is working."

Amy: They say biotin is kind of a scam. I think that, I don't think it's great. I don't know, I read something about it not too long ago and it was like, "It's a crock."

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: And I have taken it pretty consistently for years but...

Whitney: And you still have bad nails.

Amy: And I still have, I don't even know because I get them done.

Whitney: Well, that's what I've been trying not to do is get them done, because that gel nail, they're not good.

Amy: Let's see your nails. Yeah, they're not terrible, but I can feel ridges on top of them.

Whitney: And they're flimsy. Like they bend.

Amy: That's the way mine are.

Whitney: So gross. Anyway, ugh. Anyway, so after a couple weeks of the biotin, I'm like, "This isn't working." And I get very impatient. Especially when you're losing your hair and you just, every day or, you know, however often you're washing your hair, and you just are like, "I've got to stop this now." You know, you kind of get a little bit spasmodic about it.

Amy: When your hair was really full, you didn't ever lose it? You didn't notice?

Whitney: I was not making wigs. I was just getting, like, okay, this is kind of gross, but like what I would do is like I would run the conditioner through my hair, right? And then, this is what I would do, I would do this and whatever hair was on my hands would create a tiny little ball or a little knot.

Amy: Huh.

Whitney: Okay, this was, I'm not joking you, like, it, I could have made a wig for, let's say, you know, a cockatiel or something. Like a nice, like a bird. Like it could have had a nice head of hair.

Amy: Like a little toupee.

Whitney: Yeah. No, like a full bob wig. Like a full bob wig.

Amy: So you would roll your hands together after?

Whitney: No, I didn't have to do that when this hair, it was like, it was just noticeable in your hand, not in the drain. I didn't have to do this, I just went thwip thwip and it was a ball of hair.

Amy: Wow.

Whitney: Like a hamster. Like a hamster head. I could create a nice, full, tiny, like tiny bob wig. Yes.

Amy: Every time you shower?

Whitney: Every time.

Amy: Well, I probably could, I mean, I feel like I brush it and there's so much in my brush.

Whitney: I don't even want to think about what was happening in the brush at the time because I was so worked up about what was happening in the shower. But I'm sure I could have maybe, you know, made a trio of wigs during the week. But anyway, so I'm obviously freaking out. I don't think the biotin's working. So I start combing the internet for other suggestions and I came across rosemary oil.

Amy: Yes, yes, I was going to mention this. I've already saved something about this.

Whitney: Okay. So I purchased some rosemary oil, but just a heads up: either you purchase rosemary oil and then you have to mix it with something, or you have to get a something that's already got a solution. You can't put rosemary oil directly on your head.

Amy: Or what happens?

Whitney: Stinging. I'm not really sure. I didn't do it.

Amy: Probably.

Whitney: But it damages your hair. It probably burns your scalp or something. I don't know.

Amy: God, then your hair falls out.

Whitney: Yeah, exactly. What the, so I didn't do that. So I bought like a solution. Okay, well you have to cover your scalp in it, you know? And just fun fact about me: I don't like to wash my hair very often because I don't like to blow-dry it. Because it's long and it used to be full and it would take a long time, I'd have to take my clothes off because I'd be sweating.

Amy: Can I just pause for one second though? Yes. Why didn't you just start taking marine collagen again?

Whitney: I didn't think of that. I didn't think of that! What I started to think was, none of this, so anyway, I get the rosemary oil and I can't handle it. You're a greaseball. You are a greaseball with the rosemary oil. I couldn't do it. So I ditched that.

Amy: I like when my hair is greasy and just hangs.

Whitney: You do?

Amy: I know it's so weird. I think it's because I have such dry curly hair.

Whitney: But you don't like to go out with it looking like that.

Amy: No.

Whitney: What? That's not true. I've seen you a million times and your hair is never greasy. You do wear a hat sometimes, is that when?

Amy: I do. I do. But my hair really doesn't get greasy unless I put oil in it.

Whitney: Right. Right. Speaking of oil, you had mentioned castor oil at one point. Do you just put that on your...

Amy: We're going to do, I am just using it on my eyelashes. I think it's deserving of a whole episode.

Whitney: Yeah, because that, I didn't choose castor oil, for some reason I went with rosemary. I guess because it smells pretty.

Amy: No, rosemary is the thing that they talk about for hair loss. They say that it has similar effects to minoxidil.

Whitney: Okay. Okay, so what happened? Nothing, because I quit.

Amy: Okay.

Whitney: Because I couldn't take the greasiness. I didn't want to wash my hair every day, especially when I'm losing hair, I was worried that washing it was just making it come out faster.

Amy: Makes sense. Makes sense.

Whitney: So then I'm like, "Okay, none of this is working. I'm losing all this hair." I was already on hormones, but only estrogen and progesterone. I go to a functional health doctor. He puts me on testosterone, a thyroid medication, and DHEA. All of which can help with hair growth.

Amy: Oh, great. Well, I'm on thyroid medicine and DHEA.

Whitney: However, if you take too much of it, it does the opposite.

Amy: Right, too much testosterone, that's why men go bald.

Whitney: Yeah, too much testosterone makes your hair fall out. Yeah, it's just, it's exhausting. So, for about two weeks after I'm on this new cocktail of hormones, my hair stops shedding. Like, I'm not making the baby wigs. But just for two weeks, and then it comes back.

Amy: Uh.

Whitney: So I get back with the doctor and he puts me on another medication. And now I'm like, "Really? Like another medication?" It's called, I'm going to have to look at the name, spironolactone. Spironolactone. It's like a water pill, it's a diuretic, but it blocks the effects of the DHT, the testosterone stuff in your hair, so it's like a local fix. Because I was like, "Why not just stop the testosterone? If I'm getting too much testosterone, why not just pull that back?" But it's this delicate balance. You have to have enough testosterone where you have a good mood and energy, but then you have to make sure that you block this DHT stuff. So basically that's what the spironolactone, it's a mouthful, will do. But now, yeah.

Amy: How are you taking testosterone?

Whitney: A cream. At this moment, at this time in the story, I am getting a compounded testosterone cream.

Amy: And where were you rubbing it on?

Whitney: I'm so glad you asked. I would rub it in between my thighs, Amy.

Amy: I did that too and I grew hair there.

Whitney: Yes, that is something that could have happened.

Amy: I got hairier thighs. And your vulva turned purple?

Whitney: And my labia darkened. They didn't turn purple, it just got kind of like a, almost like melasma.

Amy: I don't know what that word means.

Whitney: Melasma is just like a hyperpigmentation.

Amy: Okay.

Whitney: Yeah, and I was just like, "Well, what the heck?" And so, well, this is what we have to remember: like I was just so desperate for hair, right? That I'm just doing my own research, throwing things on my body, and then going to the doctor and doing whatever they tell me to do without really, like, by the way, I'm on high blood pressure medication, Lisinopril. So the spironolactone or whatever, it also works with high blood pressure. So if you're taking both of those things, that can be a problem. Like, but nobody asked me. Like my doctor, he originally had all my medications, but I don't think he knew, I don't think he remembered. Anyway, you have to be an advocate for yourself.

Amy: Okay, he sucks as a doctor.

Whitney: Yeah, but, well, he was 89 and he said, "But I've got the body of a 63-year-old because he's on all these supplements."

Amy: Wow. No, they say you want a young doctor and an old lawyer.

Whitney: Oh.

Amy: But not with functional health necessarily. I don't know. So...

Whitney: I want to point out too that you are not a particularly hairy person.

Amy: I am not.

Whitney: And I am.

Amy: Yes. Okay.

Whitney: So I did not get hair on my thighs.

Amy: Yeah, I did.

Whitney: But I did start getting hair on my face.

Amy: Oh, fun.

Whitney: And so I'm losing hair on top and, I remember vividly like in the shower and I'm washing my face and the peach fuzz along my cheekbones and like my hairline over here, it was getting knotted. And I was like, "What is happening?" I had to get the razor and just shhh shhh.

Amy: Wow.

Whitney: Because I mean, during, it was knotting. I was washing my face and little knots of peach fuzz. It's crazy.

Amy: I have not experienced...

Whitney: It's crazy! It's so frustrating because all I want is that on top of my head, and because of the cocktail I had of too much of this and not enough of this, it was like shutting down, it was like closing the hair follicles on your scalp and wide open on your face.

Amy: Okay, so it sounds like you need a topical minoxidil. Have we gone there?

Whitney: Okay, so yes. Or, wait, there's another one, hold on. Niacin, oh no, I've done the niacin, niacinamide or, I don't know which one. No, I did around this time as well. I have a great doctor friend, a great friend who is an ER doctor and she does a lot with aesthetics too, like she does the Botox and stuff like that. Anyway, she created her own cocktail of like estrogen and minoxidil and I think there was some steroid something in there. I don't know. She created this cocktail for herself and she said it was working like it was so amazing she got to take out all of her hair extensions.

Amy: She took out her hair extensions?

Whitney: Yeah, but she'd been on it for a while. And I was like, "Give me some of that." But it's the same situation of like, first of all, it's a spray.

Amy: It's topical or you're taking...

Whitney: No, it's topical. And you spray it. And then she was like, "Don't spray it, just get a dropper and drop it in little spots on your head." I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how many droplets, I don't know where I should be dropping it, then you have to massage it. I quit. Too much work. It just, yeah, sadly it was a little too much work and I had been doing it sporadically, not every night, for a while, and I didn't see, I'm still getting the baby wigs. So I was like, that's when I went to the functional health doctor and was like, "I need, something's going on with my hormones. Like, this was not an issue." You know, at all. So he puts me on all this stuff that then, come to find out, it wasn't balanced properly and it just made me lose even more hair.

Amy: Oh my god.

Whitney: The DHEA, and I don't know all the science behind it, but like the, I think a normal woman my age, I think the range is like up to 170 or something. I had it written down on here but I don't remember, yeah.

Amy: I mean, that means nothing to me, kind of, you know?

Whitney: Okay, me neither. But let me just tell you, when I got my blood work done, my DHEA level was at 243. And the max for a person my age is 170.

Amy: Oh, you're rocking the DHEA. Maybe stop taking it.

Whitney: Yeah, so I stopped taking it. But again, like he just, throwing more medication in the mix when I said, "This isn't working." He just threw in that spironolactone or whatever. So, needless to say, I'm beside myself because the hair is still falling out.

Amy: So where are we right now?

Whitney: Okay, so right now, what I finally did was I found a hormone doctor, a specialty hormone doctor. She changed my estrogen to a higher dose on the patch.

Amy: You take a patch for your estrogen?

Whitney: It's right here on my hip bone.

Amy: Cute.

Whitney: And she gave me oral minoxidil, okay? So now I'm taking oral minoxidil and, I, how does it know where to go? Here's what everyone needs to understand: when you're doing like anything that's going to open up your hair follicles, what it's really doing, like this minoxidil, it's making the hair cycle more aggressive or whatever. So in the beginning, you actually have what's called "dread shed." And you lose a lot of hair because it's opening up everything and getting rid of all the dead stuff and then preparing for regrowth. So it can be up to six months before you see any difference, and in the meantime you're like, "I'm, you know, still trying to cover this bald spot up here."

Amy: You have a bald spot?

Whitney: I do.

Amy: What?

Whitney: I know. I was going to, all right, hold on. I'm going to have to take my ear...

Amy: Let's see this. I'm going to report, hold on. I don't believe you.

Whitney: I'm telling you, when I, do you see it?

Amy: I mean, I see your scalp, but that's called a bald spot. It looks like a part.

Whitney: No, dude, I've never had a part in the back of my head. No. Well, a little bit, but no. This is like something where if I put my hair up in a pony, like not a ponytail, but like a half-and-half. It's hard with the camera there. I can't, okay, I can't maneuver around that much. Um, I'm having to make sure that that is covered. I never, ever in my whole life have ever had to think about covering a part of my scalp, you know? So now I'm on this oral minoxidil and I do think I'm finally finished with the dread shed. But here's what I realized while I'm doing all, like going back over all this for this episode is: there's no cure for the hair loss right now. Everything you do is masking the symptoms, which means when you stop doing it, back to where you started.

Amy: Shit.

Whitney: So now I'm stuck on this minoxidil and I don't know what I'm going to do because I don't want to have to take this for the rest of my life. So, I don't know, I think I'm going to go back to marine collagen.

Amy: Uh, yeah.

Whitney: Which will take a while and then at some point I'll have to get off the minoxidil and go through the dread shed again.

Amy: Yeah, you're going to have to go back on the marine collagen. But I want to ask: where did this correspond, A, why does this happen at this age in our life? And B, I think it's hormone-related, but B, where did this correspond with you perimenopause and menopause?

Whitney: Yeah, this all started, so the pandemic, let's see, so this started two years ago for me when I started losing this hair and I was postmenopausal. Because I, when did you have that? When I, so, correct me if I'm wrong, menopause is when you don't have your period for a year, right? So that was at 51. And now I'm 54. But two years ago, I was 52. So I mean it was postmenopausal when I noticed it. But it could have started before that. But it is all hormonal. For me. Because I've always had great hair, never had an issue. It's hormonal. So maybe that marine collagen wouldn't have ended up helping, I don't know, long term. I don't know.

Amy: I don't know either. I'm just curious because like it seems like at this age we're all kind of struggling with this. I mean, I have extensions because my hair just looks like baby hair now and I mean I had like really pretty good hair when I was younger.

Whitney: Yeah, it's been a minute. In hindsight, after this whole journey, if I had the money, I think what I would have told myself to do is get back on the marine collagen and get like one row of extensions or something to kind of give me the patience to wait and see if what I'm doing is working. Which, but then how would you know if you're covering it with hair extensions? I don't know.

Amy: It's really hard. I mean when she takes them out, my hair looks like ugh, you know? And like she says it's growing back in, but I don't want to take them out.

Whitney: And you have to be very careful with hair extensions too, because if you're doing the tape-in or whatever, it...

Amy: Don't do it. Don't do it.

Whitney: It can cause more damage.

Amy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't do tape-in. I do sew-in and only do it above your ear line. That's what my person at The Collective ATX, a little plug for them because they sponsor my show. Yeah, because when you turn your head, if it's below your ear line, your skin moves and it will tear out your hair. Below your ear line, so you have to go above that. So that's why she says you have to be so careful.

Whitney: Yeah, I would tell people that are going down this hair loss path: keep getting blood work done. Because I wouldn't have known about my DHEA if I wasn't testing my own blood. I mean I wasn't doing it at my house, but I got on that functional health thing, you know? Where I can request tests every six months. And so I knew before my doctors knew that my DHEA was off the freaking charts. And that, I really believe, is what created the main reason for the hair.

Amy: Do you work with somebody that looks at your blood chart?

Whitney: Um, well, the functional medicine doctor did, but I lost faith in him so I don't go to him anymore. And what I did was...

Amy: You put it into Chat?

Whitney: Oh, yeah. Well, the functional medicine app has clinician notes so like it'll give you all of, I should do a little episode on it so everybody can see and I can show you exactly what it looks like. But you'll get notes on the blood work. But what was helpful is I've got a notebook with all of my test results and then I made a spreadsheet, which is hilarious because I don't know really how to do spreadsheets. But when I went to my hormone specialist for the first time, I had a record of like, "This is what my baseline was. These are all of my test results for what my estrogen's been doing, this is what my testosterone's been doing." All of that. And then as far as ChatGPT, I put all my supplements and stuff in, which I've said before, you know? And so I'll have a conversation with ChatGPT about, like just recently I'm like, "What can I do for mental focus that I'm not already doing? What can I add?" you know? And he's like, "Oh, great idea! You're so smart."

Amy: Did you give it a directive when you entered that, like, "You're a dietitian with a medical degree" or "You're a functional nutritionist" or something like that, telling the ChatGPT what they are?

Whitney: Oh, no. I didn't even think of that.

Amy: Yeah, apparently that helps.

Whitney: I usually'll say, "What does the research say on this?"

Amy: Good, that's good. That helps.

Whitney: But yeah, that's a good idea. I never thought of that. Anyway, side note: the other day I was talking to Gemini and I was like, "Total up this column," and it was like, "The total of that column is 10." And I was like looked at it and I was like, "No it's not, it's 16." And it goes, "You're right, it is 16." And I go, "Total that column again." And it goes, "The total of that column is 10." And I was like, "You've got to be fucking kidding me."

Amy: And then did you say, "Why do you think it's 10?"

Whitney: They do say that you actually for ChatGPT should use multiple ones. Yeah, but like many times I'll be like, "But wait, isn't it true that blah, blah, blah?" and then it'll go, "You're absolutely right! Thank you for pointing out that critical piece of information." And I'm like, "Oh my god."

Amy: My friend said you have to go like, "Are you sure?" and then it'll be like, "Oh I did make a mistake." Like, and you're like, "Oh my god." Yeah, it's not, you know, you can't take it 100%. Okay, so I have something I saw online to share with you.

Whitney: Okay.

Amy: This is a caffeine shampoo. Have you heard of this?

Whitney: That's what she put in her concoction, not steroids, caffeine.

Amy: I have not heard of it but...

Whitney: It's all about stimulating the hair follicle.

Amy: This is called Alpecin caffeine shampoo. Stimulates hair roots during washing, hair root activator. And it says, this is from someone I follow that's like a beauty aesthetician person, and it says, "Caffeine shampoos are amazing against hair loss. They block DHT hormone."

Whitney: That's what that spironolactone or whatever it's called, that was what it was supposed to do.

Amy: "That's responsible for hair shedding. Leave it on the scalp for two to three minutes to work." So, there's something.

Whitney: I bought into that shampoo and conditioner that Jennifer Garner is always talking about.

Amy: I think anything that a celebrity claims that's over-the-counter is bullshit. I think Aniston's is bullshit.

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: I think Jennifer Garner's is bullshit. I think it's bullshit. I think Blake Lively's is bullshit.

Whitney: Well, it's called Thrive and you know, she makes these cute little videos about it and she's in the shower and she's using it and I'm like, "She's so cute, I'm going to get it."

Amy: Yep. Good marketing. That's all.

Whitney: But yeah, it's good marketing. It is, I mean sadly, like most things with our health, it's like a full-time job to try to figure out what's working for you, what doesn't, what's a scam, what's not, you know? Minoxidil does have the research behind it. I was doing the on the scalp and I just couldn't maintain it, whereas with the oral tablet I take it every day and it's consistent. So, we'll see what happens. I am finally starting to, I'm sorry to say, my baby wig business is now closing up shop, hopefully. So I don't know. I'll maybe try the caffeine thing. I'll have to put it into ChatGPT and see if whatever is like pushing down on some hormones, you just need to make sure like what is it doing that's keeping the DHT away and is it somehow?

Amy: I'm tired. I'm tired.

Whitney: I'm so tired. The good news is that they are coming up with, it's all in the, you know, testing phases or whatever, but there are some treatments coming out that should cure hair loss. But it's like the platelet therapy and the stem cells and, you know, exosomes.

Amy: Stem cells I hear.

Whitney: Exosomes, yeah. So there's stuff out there but again, where are they getting these stem cells and exosomes?

Amy: I don't know.

Whitney: Neither do I.

Amy: I don't know. So, and I mean Justin knows men that have gone and had the surgery.

Whitney: Where, I don't know what, the exosomes?

Amy: No, they go get something like a hair transplant.

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: And they look great.

Whitney: Really?

Amy: Yep. Yep. And they, it costs like a bazillion dollars. I want to say 25 grand.

Whitney: I get it though, especially...

Amy: I think all the male stars in Hollywood have probably had...

Whitney: Oh, really?

Amy: Oh yeah. Like these are guys in the public eye. I'm not going to name names, but I mean he told me specifically they have had it.

Whitney: Yeah, I remember back in the day there would be hair transplants, I'm sure they've gotten much better.

Amy: Yeah. Yes.

Whitney: You would never know by looking at these, there are some things that I'm like, "I'm just going to age gracefully," but not going bald.

Amy: No. I mean you're not really in danger of going bald.

Whitney: No, but that space back there is growing. I'll take a picture of it one day.

Amy: Okay, take a picture of it to promote this episode. Come on, do it.

Whitney: All right, I will. All right, we will. And, all right, is there anything else to add? Let me see if I have any other notes on hair, but I don't know. No, I mean the takeaway is that you need to be aware of what your treatment is and understand that whatever it is is going to be ongoing. Like there's not, when you stop doing it, it stops working. And that's very frustrating. So, you know, if you can't keep up with the rosemary oil or can't keep up with whatever, then don't even start it because it's just going to be, you're going to be back to square one.

Amy: Damn.

Whitney: But I'm going to start back up on the marine collagen, I bought it again.

Amy: I have it. I'm going to take it. I put it often in my smoothie or something like that.

Whitney: I've got so much in my freaking water and coffee and smoothies and it's like, I'm just pounding the powder.

Amy: Pounding.

Whitney: You're a powder pounder. That's, I'm a powder pounder. All right. Now I think we're good on...

Amy: Do you have a midlife moment you'd like to share?

Whitney: I did. And so it's so funny. I mean it's annoying. It's around memory. So I bought, I think I told you, I bought this peptide, this Glow peptide.

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: And I was like finally ready to start it. Because I, again, I'm throwing so much at my body, I want to wait.

Amy: Yeah. I'm constantly blown away by how much you're doing. I feel like I barely knew you before this.

Whitney: Well, I'm a completely different person now because I have all this powder in me.

Amy: You cut yourself, powder just comes out.

Whitney: I'm a completely different, my cells are all different. I'm bald now. No, so I got it out of the, so it came in a package with another peptide that I had used and so then I'm like, "Okay, I'm not going to do them both at the same time, I'll wait." So I get it out of the refrigerator and I open up the baggy and the little peptide vial has liquid in it. So anyone that knows about peptides, it comes in a crystal form.

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: And then you have to, well, it depends. If you're getting it from a doctor, then they will maybe reconstitute it for you. But if you're getting it from a lab on your own...

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: Then you have to reconstitute it with, you know, a certain kind of water, bacteriostatic water. I can't remember. It's sterile water, anyway. And I get it out of the refrigerator, out of its package, and it's already got liquid in there. And I'm like, "What the actual fuck?" And I was sitting there like, "What, I don't understand what's happened. Like, I haven't used it. I don't know why it would have liquid in it." So I email the company and I'm like, "This is what's happened, is this normal? Did it come in a liquid and I just didn't realize?" And they got back to me right away, this is like eight o'clock at night, it was weird.

Amy: I like that.

Whitney: They got back to me right away and they were like, they thought that I was talking about that it was blue. And they were like, "Oh, it's supposed to be blue, blah, blah, blah." And I'm like, "No, it's not the color, it's that it's liquid." And then they're like, "Yeah, when you put the liquid in there it becomes a liquid." And I'm like, "No, I haven't put anything in there and it's liquid." And then they were like, "Send us a picture." So I sent them pictures of what it looked like and they go, "Oh, it seems that the lid has already been taken off of this. Are you sure this isn't an old vial that you just accidentally pulled out thinking it was new?" And I'm like, "No! I haven't used this at all!" And I can't remember, but there was another vial that I did reconstitute and I'm like, "Did I maybe accidentally put a little bit?" I mean I have no memory of it. None. But obviously I took the lid off and did something to it.

Amy: So what's the final conclusion?

Whitney: The final conclusion was I sent an email and I was like, "Oh, that's weird that the lid's off, but I didn't take the lid off and I live alone so I don't know what happened." And then I sent another email and I'm like, "Perhaps could you give me a discount so that I could get another one because I don't want to use this one." And they sent me back a response and said, "We're going to send you a free one this one time. We're going to send you a free replacement."

Amy: Oh, good!

Whitney: So I just got it and it's crystallized, so...

Amy: Okay, good. Good.

Whitney: But how bizarre? Like I obviously did put something in it. I took the lid off and did something with it. I have no memory of that whatsoever. None. And by the way, it was a little bitty bit of liquid whereas it would have been a whole vial if I had done it correctly.

Amy: Weird. Maybe do the...

Whitney: Somebody just came into my house and opened my refrigerator and unlocked the zippy...

Amy: Well maybe they shipped you the wrong one.

Whitney: No, it only comes in crystal form.

Amy: But maybe they shipped you one that wasn't...

Whitney: It didn't have a lid on it. I don't know. I'm chalking it up, the fact that I couldn't remember when I took the other vial out, like I was trying so hard to remember when I took the first vial out. I had zero memory of it. Zero. So that's my mid moment. Ten hours later, that's my mid moment. Sorry.

Amy: Wow. That is a lot. Oh shit. All right, what's your mid moment? It's that my fucking feet hurt. But, yeah, I know, I went to Vegas this last weekend and...

Whitney: Oh yeah, that's right.

Amy: And, okay, first of all, everything costs so much.

Whitney: Yeah, long gone are the days where you can eat, you know, your weight in shrimp in Vegas for two dollars.

Amy: I think it's shopping in Vegas more was such a shock to me. I don't know if I'm still, that's kind of a midlife moment because I'm like operating on prices from years ago and...

Whitney: 1989?

Amy: Yeah, or even just 2010. And looking at luxury goods, they're so ridiculous now that I was just like, a purse that I thought was cool was $4,600. And you know, I'm just like, "Uh, what?"

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: Like the prices are so high that I am just kind of astonished at, the belt I liked was $3,500.

Whitney: But you're looking in a casino hotel. Like hotel prices are already ridiculous.

Amy: No, I was looking at the actual stores in the Crystals Mall.

Whitney: Oh.

Amy: And so I would go in the luxury stores, I was just poking around because I had some time to kill and I was just like, "Wow, like wow."

Whitney: Are people really winning this much at the casino?

Amy: I mean, I just, I think I'm just kind of astonished. Yeah. I mean, before when I saw prices, they were still like out of my reach, but now they're like, "Why would anyone pay that?" Question mark. Like that's kind of like how I feel. Like it's just really something. So anyway, that's a bit of a midlife moment where you're like, "God, how did these prices get so...?"

Whitney: "Who would ever pay for...?" Yeah.

Amy: "Back in my day," I mean just, give me my black market China hookup.

Whitney: Ooh, I want your black market...

Amy: Oh, have I not given it to you? Oh yeah, y'all, I have a black market China hookup.

Whitney: Oh good, I want it.

Amy: I should put it in the show notes. They're awesome. Shit's real. I'll show you, shit's real. It's not fake goods. It's like, remember when the tariffs came out and China was like, "We don't think so, we're going to release this to the public." Yeah, they're actually making everything, they are. They're making everything. Says "Made in Italy," "Made in France," a lie. It's really China.

Whitney: Oh.

Amy: Yeah, it's China. And it is quality.

Whitney: Oh, well, I need the hookup immediately.

Amy: You got it. So you can literally take a photo...

Whitney: Do they do wigs?

Amy: Designer wigs? They probably do. All right, so back to your feet.

Whitney: Yeah, my feet, I just can't really wear heels anymore. I just can't do it.

Amy: Oh.

Whitney: You can, but you are like taking a stand. Well, I mean I did wear heels Friday night in Vegas and I did okay. We went to dinner, we actually walked to the restaurant and back and I did okay. They were a little lower, but still heels.

Amy: It wasn't like you were dancing on them all night.

Whitney: No! I know I can't do that. Right. But the next night I knew I was walking from my hotel room, which was right by the elevator, and the elevator was right by the exit. So, because we were at Vdara, I didn't have to walk through a casino to get to the exit. So I knew I was walking as minimally as possible, getting in the Uber, going to the Italian-American club, and then Ubering back home, right? Yeah. And so I knew it was not going to be a lot, but I was in pain with this pair of platform heels. And they were platforms, which is supposed to be easier.

Amy: Yeah, but they were high. But I just, it's not worth it anymore. I don't know when it actually crossed over to where I have a bunch of heels in my wardrobe room and I just can't do it anymore.

Whitney: Well, that's why the creator of...

Amy: Spanx?

Whitney: Yeah, she has those hideous high-heel sneakers that are horrible. You know, God bless her, I love Sara Blakely. But they are not cheap.

Amy: Aren't they like 300 bucks?

Whitney: Yeah, for some hideous sneaker heels?

Amy: I mean I would be willing to pay that. See, my brain has already shifted, at 300 bucks I'm like, "Okay, we can do that," but they're not cute.

Whitney: No.

Amy: No. I think that, go back to the drawing board on those.

Whitney: Exactly.

Amy: But I love her and I get it, you know?

Whitney: If you're listening, don't be mad at Amy. She didn't say anything bad about you.

Amy: I didn't! When I was ending college, I went on this trip, like a fashion trip for Baylor University, and the woman who ran the trip was like the fashion professor. And she, I asked her what she did her thesis on because she was a doctor, and she said, "Well I did it on shoes." And I was like, "Oh, well what about shoes?" And she said, "Well, what women really want in shoes." And I said, "What do they want?" She said, "Well, they want to look good and be comfortable."

Whitney: Groundbreaking.

Amy: I mean wow.

Whitney: You're so smart.

Amy: Yeah. You don't say. Yeah. So anyway, that is what we want. But thank god for the sneaker revolution period that we can just pretty much wear them with anything. Anyway, that was my midlife moment. I'm feeling a little bummed because I like heels and I have a bunch of pretty ones but it's just not going to work out.

Whitney: It's a weird conditioning though, right? Because I like heels too and they're never comfortable, and I feel like my legs look better in the heels, and when I'm just wearing like flats I feel squatty.

Amy: Me too.

Whitney: But don't you feel like we've been conditioned to believe that?

Amy: 100 percent.

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: Yes we have.

Whitney: Yes we have. But I don't feel sexy in flats.

Amy: I know. I went to see Tron: Ares yesterday and like the mom is Gillian Anderson and she's, oh yeah, super awesome. And, spoiler alert, sorry guys...

Whitney: No, don't spoil it.

Amy: There's a scene where, well, okay, I won't spoil it, but she's walking out at one point talking to her son or whatever and she's wearing these ridiculously high heels. They look so uncomfortable. Yeah. And I'm like, "Uh, why? No one's even around and you're teetering around. Why are we doing this to ourselves?" Like I had a moment where I was just like, "He's getting to wear comfortable shoes so fuck this."

Whitney: Um, Elizabeth Gilbert, right? That's her name. Yeah. She wrote Eat Pray Love and she has a new book out.

Amy: Have you read it?

Whitney: I haven't read it yet, have you?

Amy: I listened to the whole thing. It was amazing.

Whitney: Oh yeah, you said it was so good.

Amy: Okay everyone listen. If you're in codependency recovery, it could trigger you but it's great advice. I'm kind of on the other side of it.

Whitney: Yeah, yeah. You'll enjoy it. But she, I saw her in an interview while she was promoting this book and she said she was like at a conference and she was like in hair and makeup and all these pretty clothes and she was looking around at the men and they're just like no hair and makeup, they're comfortable, they're wearing comfortable shoes. And she's like, "Fuck it, I'm done with this." I think that's when she decided to shave her head.

Amy: It is.

Whitney: She talks about it and like, I mean you know we have been brainwashed and beauty is such, I was thinking while you were talking about hair, the hair industry is billions of dollars and here we are like, "Well, but I want to have a full head of hair." Of course we do, you know? But like how much of that is us being brainwashed into that's what we have to have to look good.

Amy: Right. It's a, we get it from the day we start watching TV or ads or listening to, watching shows. I mean, did I tell you Justin and I had a fight the other day?

Whitney: No.

Amy: I guess you'd call it a fight, I don't know. I got really angry. So we were watching the Golden Bachelor.

Whitney: Okay. We love that show. Okay, I have not watched it this season.

Amy: But the women have done things to their faces, right? And sometimes it's a little jarring.

Whitney: Mmm.

Amy: And I maybe said something about it and he started lecturing me on doing things to my face or not doing things to my face.

Whitney: I know.

Amy: I know. And I got really pissed because these women can't fucking win. Like, I can feel my blood pressure. These women can't win, right? Because either it's going to be like, "Oh you've had something done," or you've done injectives, or you look old, you know? And then this Bachelor guy from this go-round, famously was on a podcast and said he wanted younger women, blah, blah, blah. Well, they addressed it right away in this season, like literally in the first 10 seconds they play the clip of him and he apologizes. He apologizes to the women and he says he was misguided and all this stuff. But I feel a little like your truth is out there, you know what I mean?

Whitney: Yeah.

Amy: And you can kind of tell by the women that he picks. I feel like some he picked just to show like, "Look, I'm not really like that."

Whitney: Right.

Amy: But when it comes down to it, I don't think so. And so I just felt like these women can't win and then Justin's here lecturing me and PS he's 38.

Whitney: Yeah, he is.

Amy: And doesn't know the difference between lip filler and a lip flip. And literally, he was like, "Lip flip sounds way more invasive," and I'm like, "You don't know what you're talking about."

Whitney: Right. Deep breath.

Amy: And so I mean I got angry because I felt like our beauty standards are just, I'm not really angry at him, you know? We ended up talking about it and everything, but it's just, it's triggering.

Whitney: Triggering. I think it's unfortunate because we don't know what a 50-year-old is supposed to look like now. Not really. Because unless, I do have friends that live in small towns and they don't get anything done and I'm like, "Oh, that's jarring. That's jarring!"

Amy: It is jarring. Because you're like, "Oh my goodness!"

Whitney: I mean like, if I hadn't done anything when Justin met me at 48, I mean like he would brag about how good I look and I'm like, "Mmm, that costs money!" So don't tell me I can't do anything now because that's what you were attracted to. That's what you signed up for. It's a delicate balance and you and I have talked about this, you know? I want to age gracefully, I don't want to chase what I was. I got to be that for a very long time and it was fucking amazing and fun. And now I have to lean into this era and I want to do it gracefully but, you know, I don't want a bald spot in the back of my head. And if having lash extensions makes me feel pretty in the morning...

Amy: Do you have lash extensions?

Whitney: I do.

Amy: Oh, they look really good.

Whitney: Thank you. I just started using them. But it's another thing that I have to keep up with. Well this is, we're going to do an episode y'all on giving a fuck and like I think this is part of that. Because you know obviously I do all sorts of things, you know? So I am not shaming anyone right now at all.

Amy: Right. So I know and then you know right at this time that we had this talk, Gillian Anderson...

Whitney: Gillian Anderson passed away?

Amy: No, Diane Keaton passed away!

Whitney: Oh!

Amy: Oh my god.

Whitney: Yes.

Amy: And I was looking at her and I don't know if she did anything. She looked really good.

Whitney: I think she had to have but she was so quirky you hope that maybe she didn't do too much.

Amy: She still looked like herself though.

Whitney: That's the key. That's the key.

Amy: She did. Yeah and I don't know. It was just like, I just felt sort of an onslaught in that moment and I don't know. Justine Bateman, she's Jason Bateman's sister and her whole platform on Instagram is about, well, it's about AI and actors, but it's also about being your real age. Like we don't know anymore and it's jarring. When you look at her it's a little jarring. But also, isn't she your age?

Whitney: I think she's older than me. Um, wait I've got to look. Everybody let's pull it up. And then bless her heart she wears super black dramatic eyeliner that also kind of makes her look a little harsher.

Amy: Yeah.

Whitney: But at the same time I appreciate that she's speaking out and she's like, "I'm going to let my body age the way that it's meant to." But yeah, nobody knows what a 50-year-old looks like. Did you see her? Where is she? She's not, oh yeah here she is, here she is. Let me see.

Amy: Oh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. I mean.

Whitney: Yeah. But 20 years ago that was okay. We, you know...

Amy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Here, oh my.

Whitney: Yeah. I mean it's jarring but that's, it shouldn't be. When men look like that nobody is like, "Oh my goodness!"

Amy: But some of them are doing a lot now, you know? I mean like have you seen Bradley Cooper? I think he had a lift.

Whitney: No, did he?

Amy: Yeah he looks different. Hmm. And Simon Cowell. I mean there's a lot of them that are doing stuff.

Whitney: That's very scary when, because it can very easily go in the wrong direction. Yeah, I know, I know.

Amy: All right. Oh, so we've gotten off on a tangent but that's all right. Anyway, so moving forward with hair, anything to add? I mean or anything you're, what you're doing right now? I forgot.

Whitney: I'm doing oral minoxidil, I got off my testosterone, got off the DHEA. I'm on a little bit more estrogen than I used to be and I'm finally taking my thyroid medication properly since you alerted me to the rules of the game. Oh god.

Amy: So anyway, ugh. So complicated.

Whitney: It's so complicated. Look guys, everybody is just doing the best that they can.

Amy: That is true. That is right.

Whitney: And we really want to get to a place where we really can just do what we want. Like do what we want, if we don't want to put stuff in our bodies then don't, if we do then do, and no judgment either way.

Amy: Yeah, if you want to go bald go bald.

Whitney: Well, I mean, we're not going bald. No. But we still do what we want.

Amy: That's right. And we're anything but mid.

Theme Music

Top Insights

• Amy has a phrase she says out loud when something goes missing, and she has used it for years. She is picky about the wording, because she figures the universe just hears the negative part.
• Amy and Whitney both talk about saying things out loud. Whitney journals, Amy says it aloud, and both treat it as communication rather than wishful thinking.
• Amy makes a case for sarcasm as a manifesting tool. You do not have to believe it, and it comes with laughter attached. Her example: joking she would bump into Joe Rogan, then meeting him twice within a few months.
• Whitney is widowed, and much of this episode is her talking about Hunter. A OneRepublic song on the radio has become the way she notices him.
• Whitney is honest that the signs stuff is not automatic. She says being tapped in all the time is exhausting until it stops being something you think about.
• Amy's white feather story goes back to her mom, and ends with her finding one caught inside her bra, over her heart, while stuck in traffic on I-35.
• Both of them land on the same practical advice: ask out loud, stay open, and when a sign turns up, do not talk yourself out of it.
• Whitney closes with the pep talk, pom-poms included.

Watch the Episode

Mentioned in This Episode

• The Amy Edwards Show
• Every Widow Thing Podcast
• Fight For The Forgotten
• Elizabeth Gilbert
• The World Is Waiting for You by Edwina Findley Dickerson
• Weighted Vest Benefits

Full Transcript

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Amy: Are we ready to rollaroonie?

Whitney: Yes. We're ready to rollaroonie. Rollaroonie, everybody!

Amy: I'm Amy.

Whitney: And I'm Whitney. They call it midlife, but we're anything but mid.

Whitney: All right, Amy, you said something to me that I thought was so interesting. You were sharing the story about losing your wedding rings, which apparently was very scary.

Amy: I did. At our wedding, both of us lost our wedding rings. And we sat there like, I go, "Oh my god, mine's fallen off." And he looks down at his finger and he goes, "Mine's gone too." And I was like, "Oh my god."

Whitney: That's hilarious.

Amy: And I go, "Okay, well, let's do our thing that we do. What we do is we say, 'We don't lose things. We don't lose things.'" Which, okay, I don't like saying things in the negative necessarily.

Whitney: Right. "We find things" or "Everything we have, we keep."

Amy: No, I mean, but like, I'm very particular about words and how they're phrased, and I don't like anything negative. But that one, I do say, "We don't lose things." And so that one I kind of, 'cause I think the universe just hears like, "lose things," you know, or something like that.

Whitney: Yes, so it needs to be "We find things" or something.

Amy: But it works! It works. Literally within five minutes, someone walked up to my chair and goes, "Oh my gosh, here's your ring," and it was under my chair. They pull it out, and I was like, "Holy cow." And Justin also, his was like in a room, and he immediately found it.

Whitney: My phone's ringing, sorry. Just hit the down button. There you go.

Amy: So it was really truly, it always works. It is wild. I've used it for years.

Whitney: Yes, and what I love about it, and what I thought we should share with everyone, is how to let the universe, the universe is co-creating with you. And if you don't understand that words and thoughts are actually powerful, then you're creating things in your life that you don't even realize because the universe is always listening. And when I talk about the universe, I am personally thinking of God, that higher power, but some people call it, you know, the light, universe, energy, whatever it is. There is something else bigger than ourselves here. And if you don't want a "mid" life, then you need to tap into this 'cause it's pretty magical.

Amy: It's 100%, and I totally agree. When I say it, I am talking about the oneness of all. And all means all.

Whitney: And the signs are everywhere. So once you can kind of tap into that, it really does make life a lot more fun. So in that instance, you did find your rings immediately. But I remember another time when Justin lost a backpack or somebody stole a backpack, and it had a check in it. Remember that?

Amy: Yeah, we found it in a bush!

Whitney: Yeah, tell that story too, 'cause it's just incredible.

Amy: I can't really remember it, but I do remember that it got stolen out of his car, and there was a big check for a donation or something. I think it was a big check, though, and it was in his backpack. And then, and his laptop, I think, was in there. Everything. I don't know why he left all that in his car, but anyway, it got stolen. And so he started walking in our neighborhood and literally found it in a bush.

Whitney: But he told you it happened, and then I think he came home. I just remember you putting it out there like, either it was "We don't lose things" or "This is coming back to us." Maybe even in gratitude of like, "Thank you for bringing this back," and then lo and behold, it actually happened.

Amy: It did.

Whitney: Those are the crazy, those are the crazy moments. Sometimes it's not as obvious. For me, and maybe it's because I don't tap in all the time, I think you're maybe always tapped in.

Amy: I don't know, maybe.

Whitney: Share your, how did this practice start?

Amy: I really don't remember. I just remember I didn't want to lose things anymore, so I just started playing with it. And I also want to clarify that this is wellness, right? Like, this is a way to foster more wellness in your life.

Whitney: Absolutely.

Amy: And I think that I was on that path anyway of like, how am I going to do this? And so I wanted to connect more and see what happened. So I don't really believe that we're limited to one timeline, you know? There is this possibility of unlimited timelines, so I want to enter the timeline where I find whatever it is. Or where it fell under my chair rather than fell off in the hills of Sedona, you know?

Whitney: Exactly.

Amy: So I think maybe there's something there. Like, who knows? I guess that's my thing.

Whitney: I truly believe that there's something there 'cause after my husband died, I literally went on a spiritual journey of just devouring books and watching workshops and speeches and just, I feel like my eyes kind of were opened, which tends to happen when there's trauma. Everything that's not important falls to the wayside and you're left with a very clear idea of what's important in this world. And one of the things that I wanted to do was figure out, I'm a firm believer, and I know you believe this as well, that there are no coincidences. Things are happening for me, even the things that I look at as the most tragic events. And I'm like, why is this, what am I supposed to learn from this? I did not want my husband's death to be in vain. So I went on this spiritual path and started looking and finding all the magic in the world that now you can use to better your life. Make this the best possible chapter that you've had so far 'cause you're co-creating with this bigger force. So I think it's so interesting and I'm still learning about it. It's hard to be tapped in all the time. For me, anyway, it's exhausting until it really, until it becomes something that you're not even thinking about.

Amy: Yeah, you embody it and you're doing it all the time. And I wrote that down. You say co-creating, but you're also training yourself to constantly seek those signs out, to see the numbers on a license plate, to constantly be looking and tap into that version rather than some lower vibrational thing.

Whitney: Absolutely. Yeah, even on the way over here today...

Amy: Oh, did you have a sign? Did you have a sign?

Whitney: I did. I did!

Amy: What was it?

Whitney: So I'm on the way here and, you know, you just let your mind wander. I wasn't even necessarily paying attention to what I was thinking about when I was driving here, but all of a sudden I kind of tuned in that I was being on the negative like, "Ugh, I'm stressed about this, I've got this, why is this happening?" And then my brain will go to, you know, "Thanks a lot, Hunter," you know, "for leaving me with all this shit," you know?

Amy: Oh, damn.

Whitney: So I'm tuning back into my thoughts and I'm like, oh wow, I need to change that. And at the same time, I changed the radio station and this song came on that is Hunter, like, his sign.

Amy: What is it?

Whitney: Well, it's funny because this particular song he's used as a sign before and...

Amy: What is it? I don't even know.

Whitney: I've been telling the story a lot lately because it was right after he died. I was very upset because, well, obviously, but very upset because he was supposed to be the one handling the club soccer for my middle child because I told him, "I can't put anything else on my plate. I've got three kids, we're totally stressed out and stretched to the max. I don't want to add club soccer," which means tournaments and practices in addition to all the other school soccer and schoolwork and all that. And so my husband was like, "Don't worry, I got it, I'll handle it." Well, then he died.

Amy: Sorry, it's not funny.

Whitney: No, it is. It is. And so the first time that I was taking my son, actually, I was picking my son up from a very late soccer practice and it's dark, I'm on a dark road with like no lights and I'm a terrible driver and I'm just like mad, you know? And so I'm talking to Hunter and I'm just like, "This is so fucking unfair and I am so mad because this was supposed to be your job," and "Too Late to Apologize" by OneRepublic comes on the radio. And I had to laugh because by then I'm very tuned in 'cause I've been reading all these books, so I'm tuned in and Hunter always talks to me through music. And on the way over here, that song came on and I just felt like, you know, again, it was just a reminder. I started crying because it's just, I mean, first of all, 'cause I miss my husband, but second of all because it's just such a reminder that there is something so much bigger than ourselves here that we can tap into and you're never alone. And everything that you're complaining about really, it actually reminded me that none of that stuff that I'm stressed about is important. Like, it's all going to work out, all is well, all will be well. And so that was like a funny sign that I got just today on the way over here.

Amy: Nice.

Whitney: Not knowing that we were even going to talk about signs when I was on my way over here, but...

Amy: That is true, we did not. And I, have you ever seen that meme? It's like, "I need a sign," and then it's like, "I need a signier sign." You know? 'Cause so many times we're like, "Uh, is that the sign?" and you have doubts and all that. And so I just feel like it's that training to really like look for it.

Whitney: Right. Well, you've heard that story, it's like a parable, where a man is, there's flooding and a man is on top of his roof of his house and a boat comes by. And he's praying, "God help me, God help me," and a boat comes by and they're like, "Hey, do you want to get in the boat?" and he's like, "No, God's going to save me." And so the boat leaves and then another thing happens and then a helicopter comes by and he doesn't accept any of them, and so he dies. And he gets up there and he's like, "God, I asked you to help me," and God's like, "What do you want? I sent a canoe, a boat, a helicopter, like, you refused." So you definitely have to be in an awareness to really be open to what life is trying to push you towards. I always say, you know, especially in midlife, I think, and I'm having this happen to me right now, like, "What's my role now?" Like, my husband's dead so I'm nobody's wife. My children are all gone so I'm nobody, I'm still a mother, but it's not the same.

Amy: No, you're not needed in the same way.

Whitney: No, I don't have a set schedule where I'm in charge of all these little human beings. And so it really was filling me with this feeling of like, who am I now? Who am I going to be? And which can be very exciting because I get to decide, but it's also a little scary.

Amy: Well, especially when you've been doing those things and in a role of, name the role, for the last most of your life.

Whitney: Exactly, literal decades.

Amy: Yes.

Whitney: And so that's really, this is a perfect time in your life to really sit down and get with the universe to create what it is that you want, "What do I want to be next?" And what's funny is I've been having that thought for the past several months and you just, again, no coincidences, but you're like, "Let's get together, go on a walk," and we're talking and you start talking about this idea for a new podcast and I'm looking for something, you know?

Amy: No, I was basically like, "Do you want to start a podcast?" and you go "Yes!" and I was like, "She means it!"

Whitney: Yeah, it was literally, and that was because I had been thinking about, "What's next for me? What am I going to do? How am I going to fill my time? What is it that's important to me? I want to inspire, I want to share, I want to connect." And then life just put this in front of me. And I could have said no, because it is scary when you're trying something new. It's like, "Well, do I really have the time to dedicate? I don't want to let anybody down. I don't want it to hurt our friendship if we're in a business together." But this is the perfect time to say yes.

Amy: I was just like, "I want someone funny to talk to on a podcast." That was literally it, and that's my friend, and I was like, "Oh, you're just so perfect."

Whitney: Yeah. But it's amazing when you're tuned in how you'll get the answers. So let's give some, do you have some tips on how to tap into that and how to find the answers? I know for me it's writing.

Amy: Is it? Writing down?

Whitney: Journaling. Yeah.

Amy: For me, I was going to say saying it out loud. That's a bigger one for me. But I remember one of the first times it really happened with someone who'd passed. My mom had passed away, and I was reading a story about a woman that was trying to connect with her mother from beyond the grave or whatever, and she had asked for a white feather as the symbol after her mom had passed. And I was like, I remember taking my dog for a walk right afterward and walking outside and thinking, "Gosh, a white feather, that's so specific. I like that." And as I thought that, I literally looked down and there was a white feather at my feet. And I was like, "Whoa." And so that became my symbol for my mom. So I've taught my kids that, when you see a white feather. And then I remember once I was driving down the highway and I was in a lot of traffic. And I had had this bra, I'm so gross, I do not wash my bra as much, I'll wear them over and over.

Whitney: I do as well, when I wear a bra.

Amy: Yeah. This was like a plain Victoria's Secret just normal bra. And it had been like itching me in the same spot over my heart for like, I don't know how long. It was so fucking annoying. And I was driving on I-35, I can even remember I was near Pflugerville, I remember, and my mom had passed away or whatever, and I just could not figure out what was itching. I thought it was like, "Is it a piece of plastic, thread, whatever?" So finally I'm sitting in traffic and I was like, "I'm going to figure this out right now." And I remember pulling my bra and finding that spot and finally picking at it and pulling it out and it was a freaking white feather over my heart, like kind of right on that spot. And I pulled it out and I just, the shock that it was a feather, you know? And I was like, it just made me pause and breathe, and I was like, "That's so special. She's right here over my heart all the time, even stuck in traffic when I forget." So I've taught, I have it tattooed on me, well it's not white but, you know. She actually did color in some white on there just to kind of brighten it up, but I do have it on my wrist and it just, it's a sign that's recurring for me that I just try to train myself for and train my kids for. And anyway, I got off topic, sorry. But for me it was saying it out loud and just keeping it in mind. But I do believe that if you need a sign, I think the louder you can ask, the better. So say it out loud for sure.

Whitney: Yeah, it's about communication. It's just like with any relationship, you have to have communication.

Amy: Oh, I like that.

Whitney: Yeah, so you're building a relationship with God, with the universe, with life, and you have to communicate what you want. What's crazy is that you are already, without knowing it, with your thoughts and your words when you're not aware. Like saying, you know, if you say something in the negative, "I don't want this to happen, I don't want this to happen," the universe just hears "this happens, this happens." So then you're creating it. It's crazy.

Amy: No, one of my favorite examples like that: flip that around to use sarcasm. So I love sarcasm as a manifestation tool because you don't have to believe it, and then you're putting laughter into it.

Whitney: Oh!

Amy: So when I was starting my "Amy Edwards Show," I remember telling some people, "Oh, I'm starting this podcast," and people were, it was right when Rogan moved here, and they were like, "Oh, you'll have to meet Joe Rogan." And I was like, so many people said it that I was like, "I'm 100% meeting Joe Rogan." Yeah! And I was like, "Oh, I'm sure I'm just going to bump right into Joe Rogan," you know? Like, I started laughing about it and I was like, "Sure, yeah, I'll get right on that." And literally within a few months, I'd say I started the podcast in October, by December I had met Rogan twice. And I mean, yes it was because my partner...

Whitney: No, no, no! Don't put anything on it. You didn't know that your man was great friends with Joe Rogan. You didn't! You had no idea.

Amy: And it made me laugh so hard because I was like, "Holy shit, my sarcasm manifested it right away." So even if you just don't believe it, I say say it out loud with sarcasm. Like, "Our podcast is going to be an instant hit."

Whitney: Yeah, it's going to be a huge hit.

Amy: "Oh, I'm sure it's just going to be an instant, absolutely! It's going to take right off." So like, you know, just that kind of stuff. "Joe Rogan's going to be on our podcast!"

Whitney: (laughs) And then you're infusing it with laughter too, which I think is a higher vibration. Boom! High vibration. We're high-vibing. So I'm a big fan of sarcasm and also questions like, "Wow, I mean, how," like, I like silly questions and saying them out loud to yourself while you're like making coffee or doing cooking or whatever and you start going like, "Why is this so successful? Why is my business taking off? Why am I seeing signs all the time for my own awesomeness?" or whatever it is. Well, even, do you do that?

Amy: I don't do that, but I'm going to start doing that. Why haven't I been doing that? I'm going to start doing that. Everything has power: your words, your thoughts, vision, and I know you know vision boards and you know, do stuff like that. That gets more into manifesting though, rather than like signs, but it's kind of...

Whitney: But it's still connected. It's co-creating with your life to, yeah. And if you want a sign, you know, yeah, I still think I'm going to stick with my visualization of stuff as well. You imagine seeing a sign. I think that so many times people, and as a widow and I talk to a lot of other widows and people who are grieving, and I've had a lot, I can share a lot of blessings that have happened to me before Hunter died and after Hunter died that bring me comfort now. Like I feel like, oh, this was part of the plan and his soul is with me. And I just, there's a lot of comfort. But for a lot of the widows and grievers that I speak with, they don't feel like they get any of that.

Amy: Really?

Whitney: Yeah, and my reaction to that is: everybody has the ability. There's blessings all around, but you have to get to a place where you're open to it. You can't, if you're always denying it... I mean like, I was just talking with a friend the other day and she goes, "Yeah, I asked for, a friend of mine passed away and I would think about them and, you know, feel like maybe they were trying to get to me, but I just didn't believe it. I dismissed it, dismissed it, dismissed it." And finally one day she goes, "Okay, you're going to have to try harder. If you want this to work, you're going to have to try harder." She says, "Whitney, I pulled into a parking lot and there, on the car in front of me, was this person's name stretched out on the license plate with an exclamation point!"

Amy: Wow!

Whitney: Like, I just, I'll give one more, and I know this is all about dead people, but the signs are signs. But I have a lot of dead people experiences.

Amy: We're getting older, midlife.

Whitney: (laughs) Midlife. Um, a friend of mine, her daughter was tragically killed about ten years ago. I hooked up with her like two years after it happened, right? Not knowing really the story or anything about her daughter because we had been friends prior to children. I show up, we're talking, and she's telling me that her daughter is constantly communicating with her through music and through the color blue. I look down: I'm wearing blue nail polish and blue tennis shoes that day when I go to meet her. Okay, that was like eight years ago. Totally forgot about it 'cause I can't remember what I had for breakfast, much less what happened eight years ago. So then I just recently got with her, she was on a podcast with me and we were sharing her story of losing her daughter and talking about the color blue, and my co-host points down and she goes, "Look at your pants, Whitney." I was wearing blue pants that had been in my closet for four months with the tag on, and that day I thought, "I'm just going to put these on. Today's the day." Not thinking that, I mean, the podcast is from the waist up, nobody can see my pants. I freaked out. It was crazy.

Amy: Right.

Whitney: So it's happening out there. Things, you know, you can definitely talk with the universe about what you want in your life. I was just talking to the universe about creating a deeper connection and learning how to pray, and I was like, "I don't know what to say." And then came into my mind the Lord's Prayer, right? 'Cause when I was a kid we would say the Lord's Prayer in my Presbyterian church. But then I became a Baptist, so I never said it again.

Amy: Baptists don't say that?

Whitney: They don't say that. But Presbyterians, they say it sometimes, maybe on special occasions. Don't come at me, Baptists, I can't remember exactly. But the Lord's Prayer, and so I was like, "Okay, I'm going to say the Lord's Prayer." The next day I'm in my car and I'm listening to this book on tape, that's what we say in midlife, book on tape, but it's an Audible or whatever, and the woman is talking about manifesting and what you want, and she said the Lord's Prayer! And I was like, that's, she was just using that as a quick way to pray and it has everything that you need in there: "protect me, forgive me, bring me what your will is," all of that. And I thought it was so crazy 'cause I hadn't thought of the Lord's Prayer in forever. I get that thought, and then the next day it's given to me again.

Amy: Did you start doing it?

Whitney: Yeah, I do, I did it on the way over here. I do it all the time now.

Amy: Really? Interesting.

Whitney: In the middle of the night when I can't sleep, which is...

Amy: Do you make it your own at all, or do you just sort of get on autopilot?

Whitney: That's so funny. So this morning when I was on my back patio saying the Lord's Prayer, I said it the right way the first time, and then the next time I did put it in my own words.

Amy: I mean, go with it. I say go with it.

Whitney: Yeah! But I just thought that was so crazy. So things that are coming into your head, especially when it's coming multiple times, that is a sign from the universe. 100%.

Amy: I agree with that completely. And when you think of someone, like if you think of a person, if they pop in your head, I mean how many times do they pop in your head and then they call you or whatever? But it is a sign that maybe, did you hear what I said?

Whitney: What'd you say?

Amy: "Die."

Whitney: Oh no, no! And you're like "call you" and I'm like "die." I have a little death obsession, you guys.

Amy: (laughs) No, I just think like if they pop in your head, that means reach out. They could be going through a hard time or something like that.

Whitney: Or they're meant to give you a message of some sort. I have that happen all the time. I love that.

Amy: Yeah. So, all right, what are we missing in talking to the universe? I mean, I think prayer is interesting to explore too because all prayer is is really like connection and, you know, I don't think it has to be in words necessarily. You just imagine needing a sign or fill yourself with this feeling of whatever it is. I read this book like "How to Pray" back before my, this was in my first marriage, before my mom died, and I used to do it all the time. And I got real dogmatic about it. I was like, "Oh you have to do this and you have to do this and you have to do this," and I was like, which is typical for me. I get all into this and then I'm like, "This is stupid. This is, who made these rules?" And so I don't believe in all those rules. And it was weird because I really followed that like to the letter for a long time. My mom died and I stopped cold. I was completely not called to it anymore. And I was like, "That's weird." I don't know if she had a hand, I believe she had a hand in that just sort of like, "You don't need all this. Let that go." And it was really wild 'cause she was really religious. So like, that surprised me. And I've never prayed the same since, and I've never felt the same way about religion and God and spirituality. It's very personal to me now.

Whitney: Well, I think, yeah, of course it's going to be personal. I mean, everybody's signs are going to be different. But if you want it to be a white feather, you could totally have it be a white feather. But also, like when you're grappling with something, like me when I was like, "What am I going to do now that I'm this free bird and I need purpose?" and things started coming to me and I could have said no, "I don't have time" or "no I'm too scared," but instead I said yes. A friend out of the blue that has a podcast where she talks to entrepreneurs and stuff, she asked me to be on there. Who knows what that will bring me? But I said yes, even though I was nervous to do it 'cause I felt like I didn't match up, you know? I said yes, we go on this, I said yes to a walk, and then I go on the walk, and then I said yes to this podcast. You know, especially, and by the way, if you don't get it the first time, it's going to, the message is going to keep coming back to you. I truly do believe that.

Amy: But saying yes is that process of opening up.

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. And then let go of the outcome. That's the hardest part.

Amy: Oh my god, seriously.

Whitney: Oh dude, that is so hard. I know. It really is. To let go and let God or let go and believe that all is well, all will be well.

Amy: Yeah, just surrender and trust, right?

Amy: Yeah. One of the things I would do too, speaking of that, is when Justin was relapsing and stuff, I mean I wanted to know everything, you know? And my sister, I remember, I got hold of one of his old phones as soon as he went to treatment. This was back in 2021. Yeah, I needed to know all. And my sister finally was like, "Don't you know enough?" And I was like, "Yeah..."

Whitney: You're spinning too.

Amy: I do, I really was. And so after that, it became this asking of "Show me whatever I need to see" and just relaxing into that and trusting, because I was always shown what I needed to see. And so if you're dealing with someone that perhaps you feel the wool is being pulled over your eyes in some way, or you're just being lied to or whatever, then just relaxing into "Show me anything I need to see." I mean literally I found a little bottle of Fireball in Gigi's room like yesterday, and so...

Whitney: And how old is Gigi? 16? 17?

Amy: 16. Anyway, but I mean like, you're going to be shown what you need to see at all times. Been there. And I was looking, I was in her room looking for a hole puncher and I find that. And you know what? You're going to be shown what you need to see at all times. And I think there's a surrender and a trust into "Just show me whatever I need to see." And so that made me relax in our relationship too. Like I don't need to go hunting for things. I'm going to be shown what I need to see, whether it's someone reaching out or whether it's a sign or whether it's just your instinct going like, "Hmm, something's off," you know? That was a really good one for me, just "Show me whatever I need to see." So if you're feeling suspicious...

Whitney: (laughs) A little suspicious. Well look, and I mean to be quite honest, in this stage of our life, a lot of long marriages and stuff are starting to unwind or...

Amy: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I just went into my third marriage, you know? And like, I think it just made me, I was thinking about it just literally the other day 'cause Justin was meeting with this woman that's working with us, and she's just a doll, I just fucking love her. And he was like, "She told me I could come over," or whatever, and I was like, "Yeah," and then I was like, "Don't fall in love with her."

Whitney: Did you say that out loud?

Amy: Yeah! And he started laughing, he was like, "Honey, I'm not going to fall in love with anybody but you." But there was a, after that I kind of tapped into that same feeling of "I'm always shown what I need to see." And I had this moment of too, like, I'm not even scared of it really because everything is working out all the time. But always just I think I have this relaxed attitude to "I'm always going to be shown what I need to see." Period. Like it's just going to somehow come into my field of vision. Uh, I'm going to chat with her, you know? Because really it made me check my priorities with her, and the number one is don't drink and drive. And so I'm going to tap into that and really have a frank conversation with her about that. Like that can, that can jack your life up in all directions.

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely.

Amy: So yeah, so just a frank discussion about that. Call an Uber, call me, whatever we need to do. And so, really that's what's the most important thing. But also I wanted to tell her Fireball will make you black out, like come on.

Whitney: Yeah, that's not good.

Amy: Like, I remember drinking, I remember my last shot of Fireball. I mean it's delicious. I actually don't remember my last shot of Fireball. I remember the shot and then that's it. But I remember blacking out, so yeah. I was on stage too, performing.

Whitney: (laughs) Oh, true rockstar! In the band? In a band performing?

Amy: So true rockstar. I know, they said I was like a little bit like "We do what we want!"

Whitney: That's funny. I was just, yeah.

Amy: So anyway, yeah, that was my last time I drank Fireball and now I don't drink.

Whitney: Yeah, that's something that I do want to talk about at some point because...

Amy: Okay, let's talk about drinking.

Whitney: I actually think as far as signs go, you know, and I have this conversation with myself all the time because I drink, I like to drink, it's fun for me.

Amy: Oh, I like to drink. Don't get me wrong.

Whitney: Yeah, but then I go, "Is it? Is it fun for me?" because getting older, it doesn't, for about five minutes. It doesn't feel, I'm waking up in the middle of the night, I'm not, you know, getting good sleep, which we know is very important. And I feel bad about, I feel guilty even though I didn't do anything wrong, like it just brings up some negative feelings.

Amy: Oh, hell yeah it does.

Whitney: And then my brain will be like, "You're shrinking me," you know? "That's why you can't remember anything because you had wine last night." But on a vibrational level, it really does mute you. So and I feel like once you got sober, things really started to happen fast for you. Do you feel like that?

Amy: Well, yeah sort of, it took me a couple years though to get all out in the wash.

Whitney: Well, I'm not saying it happened overnight, but I'm saying yes, yes, yes! It does, that clear-headedness, it does up it for things happening for you. Yes.

Amy: Yeah. So I would love to do an episode on that.

Whitney: I want to, I'm sober-curious.

Amy: Yeah, you get more tapped in on signs and all that kind of stuff.

Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. So the universe is sending you signs to tell you what, where you need to go next, what you need to know about yourself, because the thoughts in your own head most of the time are not true. And women can be so brutal, especially as we age. So mean to ourselves. And that is creating a narrative that is creating your life. So gotta get out of that head frame, that frame of mind.

Amy: For sure. And into that "yes" frame, which is saying yes to things to open yourself up to more signs. So you're just like, "Okay, fine, I'm open to signs." I actually think that's a great mantra. You could even use sarcasm: "I'm so open to signs. Signs are just, they're literally falling on my head. Can't even believe how open to signs I am. Can you believe it? I am so open to signs, like I'm spreading my legs for signs, hello!"

Whitney: (laughs) Like Seven-Eleven!

Amy: That's right. Oh man. And so exactly, I think that that is actually really useful. And then you're like, "Yes, yes, bring it on," you know? And that'll all work in your favor. So if you need a sign, there's a direction to find some signs. Communicate, communicate that you want them, then truly be open to seeing them because they are everywhere. And then when you get one, don't doubt it.

Whitney: No, don't doubt it. I think that's what a lot of, so many people do. They're like, "Eh, was that a sign?" Well just like your joke about "I need a signier sign."

Amy: Yeah, Justin talks about that. He had this whole vision of helping people in the rainforest. He goes to the rainforest...

Whitney: And that vision came out of the blue?

Amy: Out of the blue, sober. And then he gets to the rainforest like three weeks later and his vision like is actually true, he sees it, and then they're like, "Help us," and he's like, "I need a better sign." And even then, yeah, he was like, "I don't think I can... okay one more, one more sign." And then he got the sign, right? Because after he had the vision...

Whitney: What could be a bigger sign than actually seeing the people and they go "Help us"?

Amy: I know! And he needed a signier sign. And he needed a signier sign. So he was like, "I need a signier sign," and he had written down on a piece of paper what he felt about the people, like poor, oppressed, you know, all these hungry, tired, whatever. And at the top he had written "forgotten," like he just felt like they were forgotten. And so the signier sign was: the guy came to him and said, "Oh, everyone calls us the forest people, but we call ourselves the forgotten."

Whitney: Oh!

Amy: And he was like, "That's why it's called Fight for the Forgotten." And so he was like, "Okay, there's the sign." And so you know, if you do need a signier sign, there's nothing wrong with asking for it. Just stay open to it.

Whitney: Yeah, just like my friend, she's like, "You're going to need to try harder." And they did. They did. Yeah, I mean it wasn't you. No, no, no, no, she told her dead friend, yeah, that she needed a signier sign. And then it was like instant, which is crazy.

Whitney: Sometimes I try to like ask, my husband didn't really like to do what I said. Like if he said something funny and then I laughed and I'd be like, "Say that again, what was that?" he'd be like, "No, not doing it again."

Amy: Justin does that to me all the time! He goes, "Say that again, do that again." And I'm like, "It's a one-off. If you're not paying attention, I'm sorry, that's your problem."

Whitney: Yeah, so that was my husband. So when I asked for specific signs, I can literally see his eyes rolling like, "I'm not your monkey. I'm not going to perform for you," you know? So you have to also be aware of the, you know, the people that you're asking for. But with the universe, they're always going to bring you the signs. Just got to communicate, ladies.

Whitney: I meant to mention this up top, too: I'm listening to Elizabeth Gilbert's latest book, "All the Way to the River," but it has a lot about, you know, her partner passed, Rayya, and it has a lot about communication and like how over time it has dwindled off because she has to recognize that she doesn't need it as much and she has more of an understanding.

Amy: You mean since her partner passed away and she's been, they used to talk constantly.

Whitney: Listen, same thing with my husband and I. And as a matter of fact, I went on a girls' trip and we happened to walk by this place where they were like balancing your chakras, you know? And so I was like, "I want my chakras balanced." So I go in there and the lady starts telling me, "You're too connected with someone on the other side."

Amy: Too connected?

Whitney: Too connected. And I go, "What do you mean too connected?" and she goes, "You're at a ten and you need to be at a two." And I was like, "That doesn't even make sense to me." And I remember like being angry about it 'cause I'm like, "That's my husband, he's dead, we are communicating in a way that I love."

Amy: No, this is heartbreaking.

Whitney: But then, so then I come home and I kind of forget about it, and then I go see an energy healer and she says, "Your husband is so locked in to what's happening here that he hasn't even looked around to see where he is."

Amy: It was keeping him from being free.

Whitney: Yes. He hadn't even had his life review yet, which I don't know if you know this, this is something that I know and believe from all of my studies: when you die, you know, your life flashes before you. When you die, you have a life review and, you know, in the Bible it makes it seem like God is judging you, but really you are judging yourself.

Amy: Oh, God lives within us.

Whitney: Yeah, and you get to feel everything great that you made people feel and you get to feel all the terrible things that you made people feel. You get to experience it all.

Amy: No! I didn't know this at all. I mean, sort of, but not really.

Whitney: So my husband, and this was probably seven months in or something, was so locked in. So I had to say, "You can go," and really believe it and he had to go. So I didn't communicate with him as often anymore. You know, it actually was, I didn't get it at the time, I was angry, but later it made sense. Yeah, we're keeping each other from moving forward in our own process.

Amy: Makes sense. Makes sense. Um, did it remind you of that movie "The Black Phone"? Did you ever watch that?

Whitney: No, it was too scary. I don't like scary movies.

Amy: It's scary, but one of the things I found interesting about it is people are calling on this phone who have been hurt by this killer and they're trying to help the person who's still alive. Wait, hold on. The person who's dead calls the person who's going to be dead next on a phone. Yeah, they're like trapped in this basement, there's a phone in there and it rings and they answer it and it's these people from beyond who are trying to help and, but they keep kind of forgetting. And they're like, "I can't remember, this is fading." And I found that so interesting, like that you become more of the universal consciousness and your memory of down here just fades because that's what's going to happen. And so if you're still feeling so connected, like you and Hunter were, you know, like you're not able to pass, to really pass.

Whitney: Well, we just have work to do. I have work to do here and, sadly, from all the reading that I've done, we're still doing work up there. And I was really bummed about that. I was like, "I'm tired! I don't want to do any more work!"

Amy: Me neither.

Whitney: But he has work to do there, I have work to do here, and we were distracting each other in a way that was not necessary. Still staying entangled.

Amy: Enmeshed.

Whitney: Yeah. But he, but he's still very much, you know, he was on the drive with me today apologizing.

Amy: Yeah. Well, that's what she says in this book too, in Elizabeth Gilbert's book "All the Way to the River." It's like: there's still moments, but they're not as frequent. And she understands that she still has work to do here and...

Whitney: Well, and you're healing too, so you don't, you're not sitting in that as much. I don't know, I mean I want to read her book. I love, I saw an interview with her and I love that she was like, "I mean, I'm the 'Eat Pray Love' lady and I'm fucked up."

Amy: Yeah! Yeah.

Whitney: You know? I mean, she's like, "I've been on a spiritual journey for 30 years, I've been in therapy for 30 years, and I'm still trying to figure it out."

Amy: She talks about the codependent nature of what she did with the money from that book. Oh, I know, she was giving it away to every which way she could. It was wild. It is so interesting. So yeah, highly recommend that. I'm not done with it, but I keep playing segments of it for Justin too. I'm like, "You gotta listen to this." And I play it.

Whitney: No, I definitely want to get it. I've got so many books open right now, I got to wait.

Amy: Why? What are you reading right now?

Whitney: Um, I'm reading "The World is Waiting for You," which is, she's an actress named Edwina, I can't remember her last name, but it's very God-driven. It's really, really good. But it's talking about all of the ways that life, just like what we're saying...

Amy: Is it like Christian God-driven?

Whitney: Yeah. It, I mean, she's talking about God, she's quoting the Bible, but she's giving...

Amy: (laughs) Don't say that! There's only so much Bible I can take, I'm sorry.

Whitney: Well, she's talking about God and how God has al, she's always had a direct line. I mean, we all do, but we forget and we don't nurture it. So opening up. She's always been nurturing it. And so even when she was young, people would stop her on the street and be like, "God has a message for you."

Amy: Wow.

Whitney: Crazy stuff. And so her whole book is about learning how to tap into that and knowing that God has a bigger dream for yourself than you ever had. You know?

Amy: Love that. What's it called again?

Whitney: It's called "The World is Waiting for You." And it's really good. But it does mention God and Bible verses, but it's really, really good. I think you would like it. It's not like judgey.

Amy: Okay, good. As long as it's not judgey. 'Cause if it's a, I'm gonna judge anything that's judgey. Okay? I'm gonna judge the fuck out of that.

Whitney: (laughs) Okay, I hear you, I hear you. Um, well I think, I mean, hopefully you guys got something out of this. I feel like the whole point was: there are signs waiting for you to notice them that are going to help you get where you want to go or even kind of show you where you need to go next. Which, in this stage of my life, I'm grateful for because I don't fucking know.

Amy: One year I remember, I like to get a word for the year or something, and I remember one year, I started seeing my birthday on the time. Like I would just glance at the time and it was like on...

Whitney: When is your birthday?

Amy: 8:26. And I would see that time all the fucking time. And I was like, "What in the world?" but I realized I was in a rebirth phase and it was about rebirth for me, and so I, to me I translated that that way. That's what it meant to me. So I think maybe we could change midlife to "rebirth."

Whitney: (laughs) Hell, I'm all for it, you know?

Amy: That's today's rebrand. So we're rebranding midlife, and so today we're going to go with "rebirth" until we think of something better.

Whitney: Yeah, I'm all for it. All right, so there's, that was your sign! Oh my god! That was your sign! I love it.

Amy: Yeah, so I just think, you know, whether it's numbers or whatever, just like you can be like, "What does that mean?" and what pops in your head is what it means. Just trust. Just trust.

Whitney: Right. Right.

Amy: All right, well do, do you need to do a pep talk today or anything? How are you feeling?

Whitney: I think I kind of just did, but I can do it again. Like the universe is with you! Do I need to get my pom-poms out?

Amy: Yes! Get them! I'm going to get them. I'm going to get them, girl. Here they are!

Whitney: The universe is with you! It's got your back! Everything that you're hoping for can happen, you just have to co-create with the creator and, I believe in you! The universe believes in you! Open your eyes! It's time to wake up and get to a better life! Now! Right now! You got this! This is your sign! This is your sign!

Amy: (laughs) They want a signier sign!

Whitney: (laughs) Whitney is available for your own personal pep talk as well.

Amy: (laughs) So I, I love a pep talk. I love a good classic old-fashioned just, yeah, pep me up, just gas me up, just purely the...

Whitney: Well I, I literally start to get jazzed up by... Did you say jazzed up? Did you just say jazzed up?

Amy: I said "gassed."

Whitney: Oh, okay. Gassed up. Because I said "jazzed" the other day and my friend made fun of me. And then I was like, "Wait, did you just say it? No." But "gassed." Yeah, gassed, having some fun.

Amy: I know, we're going to jazzer-cise. It's great. I love this. I'm glad we talked about signs, and you know, I think in the wellness context too, you could even ask for like, "Just make it obvious what direction I should be going or..." You know, if something doesn't feel right, if you don't want to wear the weighted vest, if you're like, "The weighted vest just seems dumb," well then you don't need it! Like, you don't have to do it. Listen to your intuition, because that's a sign.

Whitney: I didn't know, I didn't even know about weighted vests until you told me.

Amy: Oh, and now you've got one! One other person had mentioned it like last week and I was like, "Why am I not on the weighted vest train? I missed the memo completely."

Whitney: Oh, well now that you have one, you're going to see them everywhere.

Amy: No, I just ordered it, so I'm waiting on it. It should arrive today and I can't wait. All right, we'll wear them together. How heavy is yours?

Whitney: 12 pounds.

Amy: That's what I ordered! Okay. Yay! We're going to be twins. I ordered 12 or 16. It was somewhere around there. 12, I think.

Whitney: Okay, well we'll go walking with our weighted vests.

Amy: I can't wait! I'm so excited. Should we podcast in them?

Whitney: (laughs) Yeah, of course! We're going to do all the things.

Amy: I love it. And you know what? If you don't want to do all the things, that's okay too, because it's your life and you make the rules. And ultimately, we do what we want.

Whitney: (laughs) We do what we want! Yes!

Amy: Okay! Yay! Miracle workers.

Whitney: Miracle workers. Boom.

Top Insights

• The show happened because Amy had been manifesting something like it and Whitney said yes. They have been friends and radio colleagues since 2018.
• Whitney's dinner party dream is the whole thesis. Too many guests, not enough food, a broken table, and the thought she woke up with: this was supposed to be fun.
• Amy's sleep setup is specific. A lightweight silk eye mask, Intake nasal strips, a night guard, loud white noise, up at 5:45 and never the snooze button.
• Skip the weighted eye mask. Amy tried one and could not see clearly for two hours afterwards.
• Whitney's doctor put her on hormones without checking her baseline first, which is why she now uses Function Health and its 160-plus tests.
• Amy and Whitney both describe losing words in midlife. Whitney blanked on the name of a friend of 25 years. Amy spent a whole drive unable to retrieve the word charcuterie.
• The theme song, Sell By, is one of Whitney's own. She wrote it at 40, about expiration dates.
• They record in pajamas on purpose, and they intend to keep doing it.

Watch the Episode

Mentioned in This Episode

• The Amy Edwards Show
• Intake Breathing
• Lake Austin Spa Resort
• Function Health
• Ways2Well
• Bryan Johnson's Blueprint
• Jackbox Games

Full Transcript

Anything But Mid is hosted by Amy Edwards and Whitney Stropp. Lightly cleaned for readability.

Whitney: And action! My name is Whitney.

Amy: My name is Amy.

Whitney: And this is midlife, but we are Anything But Mid.

Intro music and title card play

Whitney: Not bad, not bad for our first attempt.

Amy: Let's do it again.

Whitney: It was our first time. No, I don't want to do it again.

Amy: We keep it real.

Whitney: That's right. We're not doing it again. You don't have a do-over.

Amy: Actually, that's not true. You have multiple do-overs in life, and every day is a do-over.

Whitney: Every day is a fucking do-over. So, here we are, and we're starting this podcast. Why are we starting this podcast, Amy?

Amy: We're starting it because we've been friends for years, and I was manifesting basically doing something like this, and then you said yes.

Whitney: Yeah, and we are wanting to get the message out there that midlife has gotten so stressful now. Midlife is supposed to be where you get to relax and have some fun.

Amy: First of all, I hate the term midlife. It sounds old. We tried to come up with a new name... Max Life. I talked about that on my show and then I was like, this sounds so cheesy and dumb, so I nixed that. But I like that it's just anything else. Just don't call us "mid."

Whitney: Exactly. I had a dream last night, the craziest thing, because I went to bed thinking about the podcast. I woke up this morning after this dream that I had planned this dinner party with my friends and more people showed up than what I had imagined. Then the food that I had ordered was just one serving. So I didn't have enough food, I had way more people, and the table was broken. I woke up thinking in my head, "This is supposed to be fun." I started thinking about it and I'm like, "That's exactly what I want this next chapter to be." I think we're getting overwhelmed. I just got an email today saying I'm not eating enough jicama.

Amy: Oh, fuck off. Jicama's water.

Whitney: But I mean, it's like fiber or something. I didn't read it because I immediately was like, no wonder midlife isn't fun anymore. We've got to wear weighted vests, we've got to get our peptides, we've got to get our protein in, we've got to eat more jicama. It's so stressful.

Amy: It's too much to do.

Whitney: And we just want to get back to: let's have some fun. Let's be fabulous. Let's simplify.

Amy: Yes, that's the whole point. Do what works for you. I have felt like that for the last few years. My to-do list of all this stuff got so rigid, and then it causes more stress and our cortisol is up. It's doing the opposite. We're supposed to be creating a situation for longevity and setting ourselves up for a fabulous, happy, healthy life. And I feel like when I wake up to an email saying I need to eat more jicama, that stresses me out! I'm already taking a million supplements and powders, collagen, colostrum, creatine, all the "C"s.

Whitney: Right. I want to do the things that actually work, but at the end of the day: good food, good friends, and good sleep.

Amy: Sleep is my number one. I will optimize that all day long.

Whitney: So, how do you get good sleep?

Amy: Recently I did a staycation with my friend Elizabeth, and she laughed so hard when she saw me go to sleep. Let me guess, you taped your mouth? I don't always tape my mouth, but I really like taping my mouth. Of course, an eye mask. It has to be a silk eye mask that holds my eyes closed. It cannot be too heavy.

Whitney: Is it weighted?

Amy: No, those make me go blind. I tried a weighted one one time and I literally couldn't see for two hours. My vision was blurred and I literally threw it away. I use a very lightweight silk eye mask. I don't like any stuff on my eyelashes, like eyelash extensions. No. I always wash my face. Then I use "Intake" breathing. It is two little strips that you stick on the side of your nose, and then it's a magnetic thing that goes across and it pulls your nose open.

Whitney: Different than a breathing strip.

Amy: Oh my god, it is so good. Breathing strips leave a mark and I don't like the way they feel. Intake is the greatest thing. I can't sleep without it. My nose has been messed up since my nose job years ago, and so I used to have to sleep with my arm across my face holding my nostril up. It feels so good. Then also I have a night guard. And white noise. Always white noise. Pretty loud white noise. And then I never hit snooze in the morning.

Whitney: They say never hit snooze. You're supposed to wake up at the same time every day and go to bed at the same time every night.

Amy: I don't go to bed at the same time every night because Justin stays up later than me. But I do get up around 5:45 AM every day. I set an alarm.

Whitney: I had an alarm set for 7:30. I'm an empty nester free bird. But I turned it off and I just thought, "I'm going to let my body wake me up naturally." And then you're supposed to immediately go outside and get sun in your eyes. It helps with your circadian rhythm. Aren't we so smart? We sound so smart. I bought one of those alarm clocks that actually makes the sun kind of rise to bring light into your room.

Amy: Do you like it?

Whitney: It wakes you up in a natural way, but I can't quite figure out how to program it right, so I don't use it.

Amy: That's when you use ChatGPT and you're like, "Please simplify the instructions."

Whitney: What a good idea. I just had my diving board delivered, and first of all, I asked it, "Is this something I can do on my own?" And of course my ChatGPT is like, "Of course! You're awesome! You can do this! Just follow these steps." I use it all the time for instructional purposes, especially on tech stuff. I wonder what it would say if it wanted us to optimize our sleep. It would say temperature needs to be between like 65 and 68.

Amy: We do 67 only because Justin really likes it. I do 70 because I don't want to pay the bill and plus it's just fucking freezing. So good sleep is... I've never taped my mouth. That kind of gives me the creeps.

Whitney: It's awesome, but I think I drool a lot in my sleep, so it gets wet.

Amy: You sound like a dream to sleep next to! Let me tell you that right now.

Whitney: I am! Because nowadays I sweat a lot too. I call it my "burning orb." I have a burning orb in my chest and I sweat just my front, my back, and my chest. It's no joke. Sometimes I need a towel. Are you taking hormones?

Amy: Sometimes. I'm not sure what was making my face break out recently, and I cut fucking everything out. It's better now, but I started breaking out on my cheeks. Could have been because I was vaping.

Whitney: Wait, what? You were vaping? For people that don't know about Amy, she became "sober curious" during the pandemic when everyone else was like, "Let's fucking drink."

Amy: I really stopped in 2022. I got together with Justin, and he's in recovery.

Whitney: But vaping? Can we talk about that for a second?

Amy: Of course. In about June, we were in Hawaii and Justin bought a vape that was strawberry banana flavored. It was delicious. I got a little buzz and I was like, "I miss this! I see why kids love it! Give me more!" I was really stressed out from wedding planning. I did it until after the wedding, and then I was like, "I'm quitting." My face started breaking out, and I didn't know if it was the hormones, my supplements, stress, or the vaping.

Whitney: You were planning a wedding, I'm pretty sure stress had something to do with it.

Amy: I've literally cut everything out. I'm going to reintroduce them, but I want to talk to my doctor about my blood work.

Whitney: Blood work! I have had so much blood work done over the last year because of all this longevity stuff. I started like a year ago and joined something called "Function Health." You can get over 160 tests and it checks everything. Your doctor doesn't do that anymore. As a matter of fact, when I first got on hormones, my doctor didn't even check my hormones. She just said, "Let's just try this." My mouth was hanging open. I wanted the baseline. My testosterone was like 17 or something.

Amy: And what is it supposed to be?

Whitney: It's supposed to be like in the 60s or 70s ideally, I think. But menopausal women's hormones are gone.

Amy: Perimenopause fluctuates insanely. But once you hit menopause, at least you can get a baseline.

Whitney: Well you say that, but I had that 17, and this past year my testosterone has been all over the place. But I'm menopausal. I haven't had a period.

Amy: Fucking hell, I'm so jealous because I started literally today. I had a good six-month run with no period. I was like, "This is it, we're hitting it!" But it's not it. I'm still having one. I was a little sad when I stopped having it. Isn't that weird? We don't want it, and then it's gone, and then you're like, "Oh..."

Whitney: That's your whole life. You get sad about what's over. Again, going back into this "Anything But Mid," I don't want to be sad that I'm not in my 20s or 30s. I don't want to chase that. I want to be in this moment making it the best. I already had those experiences. This is a whole new experience and I'm going to embrace it and enjoy it.

Amy: Honestly it feels powerful. I like this phase. I was at something at a table with women and then I realized I was the oldest one. I was like, "Holy shit, I like this." It's just a matter of embracing it. We just get brainwashed into thinking like something has passed us by, but it's not true. We are in our powerful phase. We are in our "Max Life."

Whitney: You're absolutely right. Now with all the longevity stuff and the wellness stuff being so popular, it's creating a whole another level of stress. I'm thinking, "Oh, I'm not doing it right. I'm not eating enough jicama. I don't get enough protein. I need a weighted vest." I'm not saying that all of that's not true on some level, but we have to start weeding out... we can't do it all.

Amy: They're all trying to sell us something. Strip it back. What we need is sleep, we need to lift some things that are heavy, and walk around. We need to connect with somebody.

Whitney: I just read honestly that the number one factor in living longer and being happy is your relationship. They say that about the Blue Zones. They're doing it in community and being fed by community. In real life, 100%. They have more community than we do. They're not going home and parking their car in their garage and being isolated. Or being in a room with other people but you're on your phones. My kids come home from college and everyone is on their phone. I'm like, "We're not even talking."

Amy: I know, and then I'll get my kids to play "Jackbox." You put it on the TV and then you play it on your phone. So we're still on our phones, but we're together. Download Jackbox. It's really, really fun. You draw things or choose things and it shows up on the TV.

Whitney: That's so cool! It's like my sister has five-year-old twins. I was telling her that I'd heard something where you shouldn't let them watch things on their iPad or phone because it's separate. Let them watch something on TV and then it's a community activity. So that Jackbox game is right in line with that. My kids are going to be so excited. They love to play games.

Amy: I love playing games. We wandered into sleep territory, but really we were talking... and we're in our pajamas! That's going to be what we wear. Getting dressed for a podcast is just annoying. You're going to see us in this every time. I just want to wear these and a robe and that's it.

Whitney: Agreed. Fuck yeah we can do what we want. The theme song is one of my old songs called "Sell By." It is all about: fuck what they say about your expiration date. I was 40 actually when I wrote it. My producer Dwight Baker rolled his eyes and he goes, "Oh my god, I bet you have so much to say about that." I had seven pages written, motherfucker!

Amy: Exactly! You get me. But sometimes we just forget that. You need to do what works for you and do what you can. I cannot add any more supplements to my morning routine.

Whitney: What supplements do you take?

Whitney: I got tired of trying to figure it all out for myself, so I purchased a bundle through Bryan Johnson, the "Don't Die" guy. We're going to do an episode on Bryan. He kind of looks like a wax figure. But it took the stress away for me because I don't know how much to take or which ones are good. It gets insane.

Amy: I felt overwhelmed by it too. I worked with a functional nutritionist, Risa Groux. She did all my blood work and then she went through it and was like, "Here's what you need."

Whitney: I joined Instagram recently... well I'm reading the subtitles on Reels... and people say ChatGPT does not have the humanness that you need. They're almost like narcissists. But for my supplements, I literally just said, "I'm taking Bryan Johnson's blueprint bundle and longevity mix. Look at the ingredients and tell me if I can also take glutathione?"

Amy: I want to do an episode on glutathione. I use topical only. Apparently Dave Asprey is talking about that you should use topical glutathione because that's going to get in your system the quickest. But let me tell you something: it smells like a fucking rotten egg! It smells so bad. If you smelled my stomach right now... I do it in the morning and then it passes. But they sent some topical glutathione face products, and let me say, I had to throw them away.

Whitney: I am like the perfect consumer. I'm like, "Oh, I need that. Oh, I gotta get that." I just started taking it by mouth but now I need it in the topical form. And so I clicked on his link and it was a broken link! It says "Opening Soon."

Amy: The universe is saving you from buying yet another product! We're throwing a lot at you. We're going to get to all of that stuff in future episodes. We're not here to overwhelm anyone, we're here to do the opposite. I'm like, "What really works for me?" Our practice is tuning in. Our practice is: how does this make me feel? Not: I must eat jicama. I can't tell you how many jicamas I've bought and thrown away. Why are you twisting?

Whitney: I feel like I twist towards you and then I twist for the camera.

Amy: Oh, I thought you were using it to ground yourself.

Whitney: No! SURPRISE! I wore socks. My feet are always cold. They're a little sweaty... ironical is they're also freezing. Welcome to my world. We had talked before about sharing a "midlife moment." Did you have a moment this week?

Whitney: My moment was so frustrating, and I think I just have to embrace it because it happens to everyone. I was talking on the phone to one of my very best friends for 25 years. I fucking forgot her name.

Amy: I have chills running through my body. What?

Whitney: It happens! Names that you've always known just disappear. What made it so much more shocking is that I forgot my one of my best friends' names in the moment. Then you're like, "I have early-onset Alzheimer's." But when I took the Function Health test, I paid extra for the Alzheimer's gene and I don't have it. So it's midlife shit. It's hormonal shit.

Amy: How were you in that moment? Were you so alarmed?

Whitney: Yes. It has happened through the years. It's "grief brain." But now it's this "midlife brain." I'd been talking to my great friend on the phone. She told me that her husband's dad had just passed away. So I call him and I go, "Hey, I was just talking to..." Blank. Nothing. And so I go, "...your lovely wife and da da da da da." I could not think of her name. In hindsight, I wish I could have just said, "Oh my god, Ken! Name just went right out of my head! But you know, that girl you're married to!" and made a joke of it. But you become horrified and that creates more stress and anxiety. Let's fucking own it.

Amy: I know that sense of frustration. My moment... I told you the other day. I couldn't think of the word "charcuterie." I'm driving down the street and all I could think was "canapé." I was getting angry! I knew there was a "C" but I was thinking of it as a "ka" sound. I knew it was sort of a foreign sound, like French. I still could not access it. It's just weird that your brain won't cooperate.

Whitney: It's the same thing with our bodies. Now we just have to work a little harder. I do think that it makes it worse when you start trying to grasp for it and you just have to relax and let it be.

Amy: Am I staring at my phone too much? Am I doing things that are not exercising my brain in the proper way? Do you do Wordle?

Whitney: Yes. I do all those games and I still couldn't remember my best friend's name. Sometimes I like to think that it's just because I have so much in my brain, like a stack of files with a shit ton of paper. I can remember all the lyrics to "Girls, Girls, Girls" and then I can't remember a word. We need to set up a Gmail. So if you're listening to this and you have a topic that you want us to discuss, we would love to know.

Amy: I know one of the things that you want to bring to the show is your pep talks.

Whitney: Yes, I do. I feel like I'm very good at pep talks and they energize me. Giving them. As I was setting up this space for us to record, I realized that right here on my altar I have these rose gold pom-poms that you gave me. I wanted pom-poms for my birthday one year. You chose these, which are magnificent.

Amy: You want me to give a pep talk right now?

Whitney: Well, if someone's feeling overwhelmed, what would you tell them?

Whitney: You know what? I will give a pep talk because I'm great at pep talks. What do we want you to know today? We want you to know that you're enough. You've got this. Life isn't easy, it's not supposed to be easy, but you have all the tools you need to get through today. And if you don't, the universe is going to bring people in that are going to give you more of what you need. So you got this! You're good, you're safe, you're awesome!

Amy: Easy! Woo! I love it. I love my pom-poms. It's so funny that you still have them.

Whitney: Are you kidding? They're special to me. I still have my light-up wings!

Amy: I think this has been a really great first episode.

Whitney: Me too. Good for us! We have known each other and been friends and worked together in radio since 2018. We're just thrilled to be sitting here and talking about these things. We want to try to simplify things and make this the best new chapter. Let's go balls to the wall.

Amy: Whether you have balls or not, put them to the wall!

Whitney: I'm on testosterone, so you never know! You might grow a pair.

Amy: I think the point is: don't get overwhelmed because ultimately, do what works for you.

Whitney: We do what we want.

Amy: Fuck yeah we do.

Amy and Whitney high-five as the outro music plays